Sil-Nylon tarp vs. cheap blue plastic tarp

[Estes Wayne-W10191]

I would like to know the touring list's accumulated wisdom of the pros and cons of bike touring with an 8x10 foot Sil-Nylon tarp vs. an 8x10 foot blue plastic tarp. Other than, of course, $100 vs. $2. What I have in mind is a tarp to be used in addition to my tent, for shelter from rain, sun, high winds, etc. A shelter for cooking, storing the bike, or just sitting outside.

Thanks!

Wayne Estes
Mundelein, IL, USA

[Jay Page]

Hi,

I've got a Integral Designs Siltarp and although I've only used it a couple
of times, I can say a few things about it. It is very waterproof, incredibly
waterproof in fact. It attracts dirt and dust like a magnet and it's hard to
wipe any dirt off the material. I've also been told that they are very
flammable, and most "normal" repair patches or tape will not stick to this
material if it gets ripped. I also think that they would get holes from
sparks and cinders in an instant if used anywhere near a camp fire.

My tarp is 5' x 8' and it's difficult (but possible) for 1 person to stay
dry under it if it's raining and windy and you're trying to say, cook. But I
would say it's impossible for 2 people to stay dry

Cheers, Jay

Subject: Sil-Nylon tarp vs. cheap blue plastic tarp
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 11:26:10 -0600
I would like to know the touring list's accumulated wisdom of the pros and
cons of bike touring with an 8x10 foot Sil-Nylon tarp vs. an 8x10 foot blue
plastic tarp. Other than, of course, $100 vs. $2. What I have in mind is
a tarp to be used in addition to my tent, for shelter from rain, sun, high
winds, etc. A shelter for cooking, storing the bike, or just sitting
outside.
Thanks!
Wayne Estes
Mundelein, IL, USA
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[. dkoloko]

On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 11:26:10 -0600, Estes Wayne-W10191

Post by Estes Wayne-W10191
I would like to know the touring list's accumulated wisdom of the pros and cons of bike touring with an 8x10 foot Sil-Nylon tarp vs. an 8x10 foot blue plastic tarp. Other than, of course, $100 vs. $2. What I have in mind is a tarp to be used in addition to my tent, for shelter from rain, sun, high winds, etc. A shelter for cooking, storing the bike, or just sitting outside.
Thanks!
Wayne Estes

I don't think much of the blue plastic tarps. I used several to cover
woodpiles, and they quickly deteriorated. I have no experience with
sil-nylon tarps. I wonder about the weight. I have two, I think,
better choices, a green vinyl type tarp, purchased from a camping
outfitter, and a smaller olive tarp, purchased as some army's surplus.
I think you'll do better for your purpose shopping camping and surplus
stores, instead of hardware/lumber stores.

Demetri

[Jeff Palmer]

I rode the Divide Trail with a group in 2001. The group had a blue
plastic tarp and I brought along my Sil-Nylon tarp. We used both when
they were needed just as you have mentioned. The blue tarp needed to be
replaced after the first month. I'm still using my tarp when touring
and it is holding up well. The plastic tarp took up a lot more space as
well. I'll stick with my Sil-nylon even though it is more expensive.

Jeff

Post by . dkoloko
On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 11:26:10 -0600, Estes Wayne-W10191

Post by Estes Wayne-W10191
I would like to know the touring list's accumulated wisdom of the
pros and cons of bike touring with an 8x10 foot Sil-Nylon tarp vs. an
8x10 foot blue plastic tarp. Other than, of course, $100 vs. $2.
What I have in mind is a tarp to be used in addition to my tent, for
shelter from rain, sun, high winds, etc. A shelter for cooking,
storing the bike, or just sitting outside.
Thanks!
Wayne Estes

[Jim Richardson]

I use blue plastic tarp to cover my curved pvc pipe framed carport/work
area. It is exposed the the elements 24/7, and generall holds up well for 6
to 8 months. By that time several holes have been punched by falling limbs.
I find the slightly heavier silver tarps last a little longer.
I also use a 6 x 8 foot blue tarp and cheap spring caribiners as a bike
cover envelope in camp.
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: ". dkoloko" <dkoloko-***@public.gmane.org>
To: "phred" <touring-***@public.gmane.org>
Sent: Monday, February 28, 2005 2:23 PM
Subject: Sil-Nylon tarp vs. cheap blue plastic tarp

Post by . dkoloko
On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 11:26:10 -0600, Estes Wayne-W10191

Post by Estes Wayne-W10191
I would like to know the touring list's accumulated wisdom of the pros

and cons of bike touring with an 8x10 foot Sil-Nylon tarp vs. an 8x10 foot
blue plastic tarp. Other than, of course, $100 vs. $2. What I have in mind
is a tarp to be used in addition to my tent, for shelter from rain, sun,
high winds, etc. A shelter for cooking, storing the bike, or just sitting
outside.

Post by . dkoloko

Post by Estes Wayne-W10191
Thanks!
Wayne Estes

I don't think much of the blue plastic tarps. I used several to cover
woodpiles, and they quickly deteriorated. I have no experience with
sil-nylon tarps. I wonder about the weight. I have two, I think,
better choices, a green vinyl type tarp, purchased from a camping
outfitter, and a smaller olive tarp, purchased as some army's surplus.
I think you'll do better for your purpose shopping camping and surplus
stores, instead of hardware/lumber stores.
Demetri
_______________________________________________
Touring mailing list
Browse and search the archives: http://search.bikelist.org
http://www.phred.org/mailman/options/touring

[Jon Meinecke]

Post by Estes Wayne-W10191
I would like to know the touring list's accumulated wisdom of the
pros and cons of bike touring with an 8x10 foot Sil-Nylon tarp vs.
an 8x10 foot blue plastic tarp. Other than, of course, $100 vs. $2.

Campmor 8 ft. x 10 ft Tarps:

Ultralight Backpacking 13 oz US$65
Ripstop Woven Polyethylene 37 oz US$4
Coated Nylon 22.5 oz US$33

Silnylon is ~1/3 the weight for 16 times the cost
Coated nylon is ~2/3rds the weight for 8 times the cost

For a group, almost without question, carrying a tarp seems
a win-win. For solo outings, it more than likely depends on
how you use it and how often you'll need it. Perhaps you
can use a smaller tent if you have a tarp.

We carried an 8x10 silnylon tarp on our camping tour
around the Enchanted Circle route in New Mexico last
summer. Including the camping time before the bike tour
and during the tour, we used it about half the time or
every evening it rained.

There are things you might do with a $4 tarp that you might
not be happy to do with a $65 tarp, e.g., stand or sit on it on
rough ground, use it as a ground cloth, get it in contact with
bike chain, rig it as a hammock... The plastic tarp can likely
be replaced in route, almost anywhere there's a hardware
store or *Mart. Patchable with duct tape. %^)

The silnylon packs much smaller than the equivalent ubiquitous
blue plastic tarp. It's green so blends better (though there are
green plastic tarps). It's probably stronger. I'm not sure duct
tape would stick reliably... Since it is impregnated, not coated,
I expect the silnylon tarp will last longer than a coated nylon
tarp (where coating eventually wears or peels).

For me, the weight difference is deciding factor. I plan to use
the tarp for a long time (8-10 years at least), so the cost
difference is less of a factor. I carry a 4-mil polyethylene
ground cloth, so the alternative uses are covered and I'm
pretty sure the combined weight of the ground cloth and
silnylon tarp is less than an 8x10 plastic tarp. I'll also
use the tarp for backpacking where the weight difference
and packing size is even more of a factor.

Compared to the cost of a hotel stay or two, the $65
is easily rationalized... (Ignoring the fact that the $4 is
even more easily rationalized!) %^)

Jon Meinecke

[Steven Arbogast]

Post by Estes Wayne-W10191
I would like to know the touring list's accumulated wisdom of the pros and
cons of bike touring with an 8x10 foot Sil-Nylon tarp vs. an 8x10 foot
blue plastic tarp. Other than, of course, $100 vs. $2. What I have in
mind is a tarp to be used in addition to my tent, for shelter from rain,
sun, high winds, etc. A shelter for cooking, storing the bike, or just
sitting outside.
Thanks!
Wayne Estes
Mundelein, IL, USA

I have not used any products made out of sil-nylon, but I do know that the
fabric is noisy. If set up as a tarp, flapping wind may make a lot of
noise. Maybe someone else can comment on that. You could also take a look
at Tyvek, perhaps a little cheaper than sil-nylon and lighter than a blue tarp.

Steven Arbogast
Eugene, Or
stegus-***@public.gmane.org
Steven Arbogast
Eugene, Or
stegus-***@public.gmane.org

[Jon Meinecke]

----- Original Message -----

Post by Steven Arbogast
I have not used any products made out of sil-nylon, but I do know that the
fabric is noisy. If set up as a tarp, flapping wind may make a lot of
noise. Maybe someone else can comment on that.

I don't notice silnylon tarp being noisy. Certainly no more so
than plastic tarps and probably less. Ideally, a tarp shouldn't
flap in the wind, but I'd bet silnylon would outlast other tarp
materials under flapping conditions.

Post by Steven Arbogast
You could also take a look at Tyvek, perhaps a little
cheaper than sil-nylon and lighter than a blue tarp.

Tyvek in the house-wrap form commonly suggested/used
by campers is the antithesis of silnylon... This type of Tyvek
is a gas permiable, fairly thin, non-woven fabric. Silnylon is an
impermeable, very thin, tightly woven fabric.

I'd be interested to hear reports of using Tyvek as a tarp
in terms of waterproofness and durability. I've seen a
few websites that suggest it as a shelter material, but also
a number of reports of less than satisfactory results.
As a groundsheet to protect the tent floor from wear, it
may have some attributes to recommend it. Some have
reported that lying directly on Tyvek without a waterproof
layer, water may come through the Tyvek at pressure
points, however.

As a bike cover, it might be just the ticket! Probably
more light weight and durable than polyethylene sheet.

Jon Meinecke

[Jamie Noble]

Hi Wayne.

(snip)

I would like to know the touring list's accumulated wisdom of the pros and cons of bike touring with an 8x10 foot Sil-Nylon tarp vs. an 8x10 foot blue plastic tarp. Other than, of course, $100 vs. $2. What I have in mind is a tarp to be used in addition to my tent, for shelter from rain, sun, high winds, etc. A shelter for cooking, storing the bike, or just sitting outside.

(end snip)

I have used both types when touring. I use mine primarily for hding the bike or other gear during a rest day. If the weather is particularily wet I might use it to cover the bike as well.

I've found that the plastic tarp type comes in other colours then blue. I actually used one that hunters use to cover blinds that features a camoflage pattern in various shades of green and brown.

The Silnylon tarp I use is the same colour as my Hennessy Hammock.

Tarp:

- Relatively cheap although the camo version was more money to purchase then a typical blue one

- Noisy when flapping in the wind

- Easy to rip

- Fewer tie-off points around edges and no tie off point in the center

- Square/rectangle shape (could be good or bad depending on your point of view

- Takes much more room to pack even through it was smaller

- Heavier

- Easier to replace when touring

- Easily damaged by UV

Silnylon:

- More money!

- Somewhat noisy if not secured properly

- More difficult to rip (or perhaps I am just more careful because of the price and difficulty for field replacement)

- Has center tie point as well as more tie-offs around the hexagonal edges of tarp.

- Can be used as a second or replacement fly for my hammock especially in nasty weather where more protection might be desired

- Good stealth characteristics

- Easy to pack. Probably would fit in the same bag as hammock if I actually tried it sometime

- Not likely to find in any stores while touring. Need to order in a replacement

- Product is well supported meaning that repairs are likely possible rather then just a throw away part

~Jamie N

Interested in Bicycle Touring? - http://www.bicycletouring101.com


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[C. Duque]

Estes Wayne-W10191 wrote "I would like to know the touring list's
accumulated wisdom of the pros and
cons of bike touring with an 8x10 foot Sil-Nylon tarp vs. an 8x10 foot
blue plastic tarp...."

I bought some really cheap Zero Porosity Fabric a while back to make two
light weight covers to take our bikes in the trains in Japan. This
fabric is very light weight and tough, it is used in paragliders (sp?)
and parachutes. If you have a parachuting/Paragliding club near by they
may point you in the right direction where you can get used fabric.
There is also some places on the web where you can buy the stuff very
cheap, google it.

Carlos

[Jim Foreman]

----- Original Message -----
From: C. Duque <touring-***@public.gmane.org>
To: touring <touring-***@public.gmane.org>
Sent: Monday, February 28, 2005 8:13 PM
Subject: Re: Sil-Nylon tarp vs. cheap blue plastic tarp

Post by C. Duque
I bought some really cheap Zero Porosity Fabric a while back to make two
light weight covers to take our bikes in the trains in Japan. This
fabric is very light weight and tough, it is used in paragliders (sp?)
and parachutes. If you have a parachuting/Paragliding club near by they
may point you in the right direction where you can get used fabric.
There is also some places on the web where you can buy the stuff very
cheap, google it.<<<<

It's normally called "Ripstop Nylon" and while it's very strong, it
certainly isn't water proof or even resistant. Parachutes have TBOs which
means they can't be used after a certain number of years of age. No rigger
will repack them once they have reached their end of service so the shroud
lines are usually cut off and the canopy sold to cover haystacks, picnic
shelters or whatever. Due to the strange cut in making the canopy, there is
little really usable fabric available so the price is cheap.
Look up parachute packing and rigging in the yellow pages or skydiving
clubs as both are a good source for them.
Jim Foreman
jimfore-***@public.gmane.org
http://www.JimForeman.com

[Brian Huntley]

[snip]
- Fewer tie-off points around edges and no tie off point in the center

You can get clamp on tie-offs called something like "Gator Grips" from
places like Lee Valley Tools or Princess Otto, that let you put an
eyelet or loop anywhere you want on the edge of a tarp. I imagine you
could improvise a centre tie-off, too.

[. dkoloko]

Post by Brian Huntley

[snip]
- Fewer tie-off points around edges and no tie off point in the center

You can get clamp on tie-offs called something like "Gator Grips" from
places like Lee Valley Tools or Princess Otto, that let you put an
eyelet or loop anywhere you want on the edge of a tarp.

I have been looking for adhesive tabs with grommets to add tie-off
points to tarps. I had some, sold by camping outlet, but have been
unable to find more.Tarp was more apt to tear above tab, than tab come
off. I also tried rubber balls/figure 8 rings, preferring the
adhesive tabs.

Demetri

[Jim Richardson]

You can also use steel key hole shappedsafety pin type closure shower
curtain hooks. From back side wrap small stone in tarp, put thru big end and
slide down into small end. tie line to big end loop and to stake. Allows
line placement anywhere. when finished using, leave rock behind.
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: ". dkoloko" <dkoloko-***@public.gmane.org>
To: "Brian Huntley" <bphuntley-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+***@public.gmane.org>
Cc: <touring-***@public.gmane.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 8:15 PM
Subject: Re: Sil-Nylon tarp vs. cheap blue plastic tarp

Post by . dkoloko

Post by Brian Huntley

[snip]
- Fewer tie-off points around edges and no tie off point in the center

You can get clamp on tie-offs called something like "Gator Grips" from
places like Lee Valley Tools or Princess Otto, that let you put an
eyelet or loop anywhere you want on the edge of a tarp.

I have been looking for adhesive tabs with grommets to add tie-off
points to tarps. I had some, sold by camping outlet, but have been
unable to find more.Tarp was more apt to tear above tab, than tab come
off. I also tried rubber balls/figure 8 rings, preferring the
adhesive tabs.
Demetri
_______________________________________________
Touring mailing list
Browse and search the archives: http://search.bikelist.org
http://www.phred.org/mailman/options/touring