Discussion:
Loaded bike weight
(too old to reply)
Wayne Estes
2009-07-08 20:38:59 UTC
Permalink
I'm all packed for my summer bike tour, "The California J". I depart
Thursday evening on an overnight train from Eugene to San Francisco (bus
across the Bay Bridge). I'll assemble the boxed bike at the San
Francisco ferry building and pedal away from there.

http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/The-California-J

Last night I weighed all the stuff. The four panniers weigh a total of
52 pounds (24 kg). That includes a lot of food and consumables (cooking
oil, sugar, soaps, fuel, etc.). The Bacchetta Giro 20 bike weighs 40
pounds (18 kg) including rear and underseat racks, fenders, pump, tools,
spare tubes, chain lube, cyclocomputer, LED flasher, 4 bottle cages, and
4 empty water bottles. That's a total of 92 pounds, but with full water
bottles the weight is nearly 100 pounds (45 kg). Of course the weight
fluctuates during the tour. Sometimes more, sometimes less.

Whenever free Wi-Fi is available I'll keep up with the touring messages
using a Nokia N810 Internet Tablet.

Wayne Estes
Oakland, Oregon, USA
Philip Donahue
2009-07-09 01:04:49 UTC
Permalink
That sounds about right. When I was touring on a G/20, my weights were
equivalent. I don't know how the people do it on claimed weights of
60-70 pounds. Good luck on your tour.

Phil Donahue
Kennersley Point Marina
410.490.0810 Cell



On Jul 8, 2009, at 4:38 PM, Wayne Estes wrote:

> I'm all packed for my summer bike tour, "The California J". I
> depart Thursday evening on an overnight train from Eugene to San
> Francisco (bus across the Bay Bridge). I'll assemble the boxed bike
> at the San Francisco ferry building and pedal away from there.
>
> http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/The-California-J
>
> Last night I weighed all the stuff. The four panniers weigh a total
> of 52 pounds (24 kg). That includes a lot of food and consumables
> (cooking oil, sugar, soaps, fuel, etc.). The Bacchetta Giro 20 bike
> weighs 40 pounds (18 kg) including rear and underseat racks,
> fenders, pump, tools, spare tubes, chain lube, cyclocomputer, LED
> flasher, 4 bottle cages, and 4 empty water bottles. That's a total
> of 92 pounds, but with full water bottles the weight is nearly 100
> pounds (45 kg). Of course the weight fluctuates during the tour.
> Sometimes more, sometimes less.
>
> Whenever free Wi-Fi is available I'll keep up with the touring
> messages using a Nokia N810 Internet Tablet.
>
> Wayne Estes
> Oakland, Oregon, USA
> _______________________________________________
> Touring mailing list
> Touring-***@public.gmane.org
> Browse and search the archives: http://search.bikelist.org
> Unsubscribe or list settings:
> http://www.phred.org/mailman/options/touring



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David Chapman
2009-07-09 07:30:55 UTC
Permalink
Does anyone carry an axe/ hatchet or saw while on a self-supported tour
in remote areas ?

We're heading across Kazakhstan etc in a few months (currently in
Vietnam, and on the way to China)

Just wondering whether one would be useful in the panniers for use when
wild camping. I'm no crazy pyro intent on raging bonfires, but for a
small campfire ? Weight isn't too much of an issue - I'm far more
concerned with a quality experience than raw road-miles per day.

Gerber make a small one, with a removeable knife within the handle, or a
longer one which holds a saw within.

http://www.amazon.com/Gerber-22-49470-Gator-Combo-Axe/dp/B000K6HCKU/
http://www.amazon.com/Gerber-22-41420-Gator-Combo-Axe/dp/B000C0RKYM/

What do you think ?
Peter Ballinger
2009-07-09 10:10:42 UTC
Permalink
Gerber axes are generally well respected, as are Fiskars. (Fiskars own
Gerber, and the synthetic handled axes are a Fiskars design.) Of the two
you linked I'd go for the one with the saw. There are three reasons for
the saw over the knife:
1) The saw expands your abilities more than the knife. Between an axe
and a saw you'll be hard pressed to find wood you can't deal with, but
the knife doesn't do a lot for starting a fire that the small axe can't.
2) I doubt the knife is particularly high quality anyway, but the saw is
probably pretty good. Quality knives are more expensive to manufacture
than quality saws. Gerber does make some, but in themselves they cost
more than this whole packages, so I doubt they're included in it along
with the axe.
3) The longer handle is probably a good thing. An 8" long hatchet is
pushing the bounds of usefulness, particularly if you're not that
experienced with one.

Beyond Gerber/Fiskars, they're quite a bit more expensive, but the usual
consensus for the best you can buy in hatchets and axes is the hand
forged Swedish brand "Gränsfors Bruks". A common close second is
"Wetterlings", although the owner of Gränsfors just recently bought
Wetterlings as well, stating that he was simply an axe enthusiast and
wanted to keep both companies going.

Both make traditional carbon steel axes with wooden handles (perhaps
more easily replaced on the road than a broken plastic handle, but
Gerber/Fiskars handles have a reputation for near indestructibility),
and both are known for their exceptional cutting power. Gränsfors is
also known for shipping their axes with correct profiles and very sharp
edges, ready to use right out of the box. Many other companies expect
the buyer to either not know or care that their new axe is essentially
dull, or to remedy it themselves. I think I've heard that Gerber's
factory edges are quite good as well though. If you're in the faction
that cares about a sharp axe* you might want to consider this, and not
having to find a way to correct a dull misprofiled edge on the road
before you can ever use it.

* And you should be, sharp axes make the work easier and safer by
cutting instead of glancing or bouncing off the wood and potentially
into your various fleshy bits.

Gränsfors makes a very small hatchet, the "Mini Hatchet" with a handle
about 10 inches long. It's popular with traditionalist outdoors
enthusiasts, but it may be smaller than you'd find useful, depending on
your skill with a hatchet, and it's one of their most expensive
(commmonly nearly $150 US). Both Gränsfors and Wetterlings make a
couple models in the 12-15 inch range.

Gränsfors are typically between $100 and $150 US, while Wetterlings can
be closer to $40 for some models.


In the end, I'd probably go for the longer Gerber for this purpose just
for cost and low maintenance and minimizing the loss if it's destroyed
or lost.

-Peter



David Chapman wrote:
> Does anyone carry an axe/ hatchet or saw while on a self-supported tour
> in remote areas ?
>
> We're heading across Kazakhstan etc in a few months (currently in
> Vietnam, and on the way to China)
>
> Just wondering whether one would be useful in the panniers for use when
> wild camping. I'm no crazy pyro intent on raging bonfires, but for a
> small campfire ? Weight isn't too much of an issue - I'm far more
> concerned with a quality experience than raw road-miles per day.
>
> Gerber make a small one, with a removeable knife within the handle, or a
> longer one which holds a saw within.
>
> http://www.amazon.com/Gerber-22-49470-Gator-Combo-Axe/dp/B000K6HCKU/
> http://www.amazon.com/Gerber-22-41420-Gator-Combo-Axe/dp/B000C0RKYM/
>
> What do you think ?
>
> _______________________________________________
> Touring mailing list
> Touring-***@public.gmane.org
> Browse and search the archives: http://search.bikelist.org
> Unsubscribe or list settings:
> http://www.phred.org/mailman/options/touring
Scott Loveless
2009-07-09 13:01:04 UTC
Permalink
On 7/9/09, Peter Ballinger <peter.j.ballinger-***@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Gerber axes are generally well respected, as are Fiskars.

Another vote for Fiskars (and Gerber, I guess). A few years ago I
bought their 28 inch axe and couldn't be happier. It was part of my
grand plan to remove as many power tools from my life as possible and
was one of the few tools available at places like Lowe's or HD that
didn't suck. It's seen more use chopping roots out of the ground than
anything else and has required almost no maintenance.

--
Scott Loveless
Cigarette-free since December 14th, 2008
http://www.twosixteen.com/fivetoedsloth/
Mary Shaw
2009-07-09 11:23:05 UTC
Permalink
We keep a "pocket chain saw" http://www.pocketchainsaw.com/ on the bike all
the time. It's actually a pretty decent saw for logs up to 6" or so. We use
it to clear trees that have fallen across the trail. Cost is around $30-35,
only weighs a few ounces. Be sure to get the one with the little rods for
handles, not just the finger loops.

At least half-a-dozen of our friends have gotten their own after seeing
ours. It's hard to imagine a border crossing guard interpreting it as a
weapon instead of a tool, too.

This looks like one side of a bicycle chain with a toothed edge. It is not
the slightly abrasive wire that is often sold for the purpose but is
essentially useless.

Mary Shaw

On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 3:30 AM, David Chapman <talldaveos-/***@public.gmane.org> wrote:

> Does anyone carry an axe/ hatchet or saw while on a self-supported tour in
> remote areas ?
>
> We're heading across Kazakhstan etc in a few months (currently in Vietnam,
> and on the way to China)
>
> Just wondering whether one would be useful in the panniers for use when
> wild camping. I'm no crazy pyro intent on raging bonfires, but for a small
> campfire ? Weight isn't too much of an issue - I'm far more concerned with a
> quality experience than raw road-miles per day.
>
> Gerber make a small one, with a removeable knife within the handle, or a
> longer one which holds a saw within.
>
> http://www.amazon.com/Gerber-22-49470-Gator-Combo-Axe/dp/B000K6HCKU/
> http://www.amazon.com/Gerber-22-41420-Gator-Combo-Axe/dp/B000C0RKYM/
>
> What do you think ?
>
> _______________________________________________
> Touring mailing list
> Touring-***@public.gmane.org
> Browse and search the archives: http://search.bikelist.org
> Unsubscribe or list settings:
> http://www.phred.org/mailman/options/touring
>


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chuck davis
2009-07-09 14:35:56 UTC
Permalink
Doubt if they are still available butt Palco's UL Backpacking Saws are nice
when ya actually need a small saw

On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 6:23 AM, Mary Shaw <mary.shaw-***@public.gmane.org> wrote:

> We keep a "pocket chain saw" http://www.pocketchainsaw.com/ on the bike
> all
> the time. It's actually a pretty decent saw for logs up to 6" or so. We
> use
> it to clear trees that have fallen across the trail. Cost is around
> $30-35,
> only weighs a few ounces. Be sure to get the one with the little rods for
> handles, not just the finger loops.
>
> At least half-a-dozen of our friends have gotten their own after seeing
> ours. It's hard to imagine a border crossing guard interpreting it as a
> weapon instead of a tool, too.
>
> This looks like one side of a bicycle chain with a toothed edge. It is
> not
> the slightly abrasive wire that is often sold for the purpose but is
> essentially useless.
>
> Mary Shaw
>
> On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 3:30 AM, David Chapman <talldaveos-/***@public.gmane.org>
> wrote:
>
> > Does anyone carry an axe/ hatchet or saw while on a self-supported tour
> in
> > remote areas ?
> >
> > We're heading across Kazakhstan etc in a few months (currently in
> Vietnam,
> > and on the way to China)
> >
> > Just wondering whether one would be useful in the panniers for use when
> > wild camping. I'm no crazy pyro intent on raging bonfires, but for a
> small
> > campfire ? Weight isn't too much of an issue - I'm far more concerned
> with a
> > quality experience than raw road-miles per day.
> >
> > Gerber make a small one, with a removeable knife within the handle, or a
> > longer one which holds a saw within.
> >
> > http://www.amazon.com/Gerber-22-49470-Gator-Combo-Axe/dp/B000K6HCKU/
> > http://www.amazon.com/Gerber-22-41420-Gator-Combo-Axe/dp/B000C0RKYM/
> >
> > What do you think ?
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Touring mailing list
> > Touring-***@public.gmane.org
> > Browse and search the archives: http://search.bikelist.org
> > Unsubscribe or list settings:
> > http://www.phred.org/mailman/options/touring
> >
>
>
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> Unsubscribe or list settings:
> http://www.phred.org/mailman/options/touring
>



--
Chuck Davis
OK Velo (Okvelo-***@public.gmane.org)
Tulsa, OK

When ya really bored and/or otherwise want to understand just how cool a
dude I yam, czech the deranged drivel and nonsense below:

http://chucksbikes.blogspot.com/
http://okvelo.blogspot.com/
http://allweighscranky.blogspot.com/


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Chip Mefford
2009-07-09 11:25:38 UTC
Permalink
Well,

Kazakhstan is a bit out of my league, but it sounds great.

yes, If I'm going to be back country, I carry a hatchet,
and usually a bow saw.

I'm not keen on stuff like the Gerber hatchet. Too gizmo
'designed by marketing'-ish to me. When I was a lot younger,
I had a lot of gerber edged tools. But somehow I don't think
Gerber employs many smiths in Eugene anymore. All the gerber
branded stuff I've seen in the last years, looked like it was designed
on madison avenue to look good in a sharper image catalog, and was made
in the pacific rim. If you are going to get a hand axe, get a good one,
it's worth it.
http://www.gransfors.com/htm_eng/produkter/new_prod/p_lillayxa.html

That said, it's a lot of weight, all things being relative to
the amount of work it will do. You might just consider
a sven saw which is lighter, and can other stuff, as well as many
of the things the hatchet can do. (not all, but a lot)

http://www.svensaw.com/

Gotta take good care of the blade. But this is a great tool.
bow saw blade care is quite an art in itself, worth some study
before taking off with it.

David Chapman wrote:
> Does anyone carry an axe/ hatchet or saw while on a self-supported tour
> in remote areas ?
>
> We're heading across Kazakhstan etc in a few months (currently in
> Vietnam, and on the way to China)
>
> Just wondering whether one would be useful in the panniers for use when
> wild camping. I'm no crazy pyro intent on raging bonfires, but for a
> small campfire ? Weight isn't too much of an issue - I'm far more
> concerned with a quality experience than raw road-miles per day.
>
> Gerber make a small one, with a removeable knife within the handle, or a
> longer one which holds a saw within.
>
> http://www.amazon.com/Gerber-22-49470-Gator-Combo-Axe/dp/B000K6HCKU/
> http://www.amazon.com/Gerber-22-41420-Gator-Combo-Axe/dp/B000C0RKYM/
>
> What do you think ?
>
> _______________________________________________
> Touring mailing list
> Touring-***@public.gmane.org
> Browse and search the archives: http://search.bikelist.org
> Unsubscribe or list settings:
> http://www.phred.org/mailman/options/touring
>
>


--
---
Chip Mefford
--------------------
Before Enlightenment;
chop wood
carry water
After Enlightenment;
chop wood
carry water
---------------------
Public Key
http://www.well.com/user/cpm
Jon Meinecke
2009-07-09 11:53:26 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 2:30 AM, David Chapman <talldaveos-/***@public.gmane.org> wrote:

>
> Just wondering whether [hatchet/saw] would be useful in the panniers for
> use when wild camping. I'm no crazy pyro intent on raging bonfires, but for
> a small campfire ?


For many people, if a downed branch is too big to break
by hand, it's too big for a small campfire. There are lots
of ways to break a branch even up to several inches in
diameter without a hatchet or saw.

You're not going to be splitting large logs with a small hatchet
anyway. And If branches are reasonable diameter for a
small fire, but "too long", you can always burn them in half.

Jon


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Robert Tilley
2009-07-09 14:57:37 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 12:30 AM, David Chapman <talldaveos-/***@public.gmane.org> wrote:

> Does anyone carry an axe/ hatchet or saw while on a self-supported tour in
> remote areas ?
>
> We're heading across Kazakhstan etc in a few months (currently in Vietnam,
> and on the way to China)
>
> Just wondering whether one would be useful in the panniers for use when
> wild camping. I'm no crazy pyro intent on raging bonfires, but for a small
> campfire ? Weight isn't too much of an issue - I'm far more concerned with a
> quality experience than raw road-miles per day.
>
> I carry the Gransfors Bruks mini hatchet. Well made, very sharp & takes up
very little space. The flat side is useful for driving in tent stakes. Not
cheap but it I'll get years of use out of it.

Robert "Bruks fan" Tilley
San Diego, CA


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Bill Gibson
2009-07-09 17:16:29 UTC
Permalink
When I rely on wood, most of the time I just use small, dry, down sticks I
can break by stomping or whacking, but this year I discovered a
Scandinavian, Finnish or Sami, style of knife sometimes called Leuku, which
is pretty big, 8" or so, straight and thick like a mill file that has been
sharpened with a single bevel and well-tempered. It is very sharp and can
chop smallish limbs efficiently, like an axe but better, with a flick of the
wrist, which works better if the limb is small enough to be springy, and it
is much lighter and easy to pack. Using a "baton", a hefty stick, as a
mallet, it splits very good sticks off of logs too big to burn or light,
more safely and easily than an axe. And it easily makes large "feather
sticks", sticks cut many times as if you are whittling without cutting the
chips off, when everything is wet and you need something to carry the fire
from tinder to kindling. I got one from ebay. Look at what Nordicaheat or
Cloudberry6 offer. (I have no connection to them). Much lighter and sharper
than a machete, and safer than an axe: easier to chop and split accurately.
The big problem would be that it looks almost like a short sword, and
internationally there might be some restrictions on carrying something that
looks like a weapon! Well, I guess it is...

On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 7:57 AM, Robert Tilley <rltilley-***@public.gmane.org> wrote:

> On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 12:30 AM, David Chapman <talldaveos-/***@public.gmane.org>
> wrote:
>
> > Does anyone carry an axe/ hatchet or saw while on a self-supported tour
> in
> > remote areas ?
> >
> > We're heading across Kazakhstan etc in a few months (currently in
> Vietnam,
> > and on the way to China)
> >
> > Just wondering whether one would be useful in the panniers for use when
> > wild camping. I'm no crazy pyro intent on raging bonfires, but for a
> small
> > campfire ? Weight isn't too much of an issue - I'm far more concerned
> with a
> > quality experience than raw road-miles per day.
> >
> > I carry the Gransfors Bruks mini hatchet. Well made, very sharp & takes
> up
> very little space. The flat side is useful for driving in tent stakes.
> Not
> cheap but it I'll get years of use out of it.
>
> Robert "Bruks fan" Tilley
> San Diego, CA
>
>
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> Touring-***@public.gmane.org
> Browse and search the archives: http://search.bikelist.org
> Unsubscribe or list settings:
> http://www.phred.org/mailman/options/touring
>



--
Bill Gibson
Tempe, Arizona, USA


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MH
2009-11-19 09:18:39 UTC
Permalink
Thank you Bill,

I found your suggestion of using a knife for chopping and
splitting firewood with reduced weight very interesting in
comparison to carrying a hatchet. I was looking for knives
to do this with and found this video --

Ka-Bar Bowie (4:31 with field use operations)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49RulxpVAAA

From reading & viewing other sources the knife is
just under a pound (15.6 ounces) and about $60.
The knife sounds like a good value but I thought
you folks might know of others that maybe better
when bicycle tour camping in the woods.

-Mark Hoagy

Bill Gibson wrote:
> When I rely on wood, most of the time I just use small, dry, down sticks I
> can break by stomping or whacking, but this year I discovered a
> Scandinavian, Finnish or Sami, style of knife sometimes called Leuku, which
> is pretty big, 8" or so, straight and thick like a mill file that has been
> sharpened with a single bevel and well-tempered. It is very sharp and can
> chop smallish limbs efficiently, like an axe but better, with a flick of the
> wrist, which works better if the limb is small enough to be springy, and it
> is much lighter and easy to pack. Using a "baton", a hefty stick, as a
> mallet, it splits very good sticks off of logs too big to burn or light,
> more safely and easily than an axe. And it easily makes large "feather
> sticks", sticks cut many times as if you are whittling without cutting the
> chips off, when everything is wet and you need something to carry the fire
> from tinder to kindling. I got one from ebay. Look at what Nordicaheat or
> Cloudberry6 offer. (I have no connection to them). Much lighter and sharper
> than a machete, and safer than an axe: easier to chop and split accurately.
> The big problem would be that it looks almost like a short sword, and
> internationally there might be some restrictions on carrying something that
> looks like a weapon! Well, I guess it is...
. dkoloko
2009-11-19 14:05:05 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 4:18 AM, MH <hoagy-CSKG04oV0g/***@public.gmane.org> wrote:

>
> Ka-Bar Bowie (4:31 with field use operations)
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49RulxpVAAA
>
> From reading & viewing other sources the knife is
> just under a pound (15.6 ounces) and about $60.
> The knife sounds like a good value but I thought
> you folks might know of others that maybe better
> when bicycle tour camping in the woods.
>
> -Mark Hoagy
>
> Cheaper, lighter, probably faster, and with less maintenance.

http://www.amazon.com/Pocket-Camping-Saw-Sportsmans-Version/dp/B000O9GHDQ

Demetri


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MH
2009-11-19 19:10:33 UTC
Permalink
Thank you.

Do you know of any videos of folks using a rope saw?

. dkoloko wrote:
> Cheaper, lighter, probably faster, and with less maintenance.
>
> http://www.amazon.com/Pocket-Camping-Saw-Sportsmans-Version/dp/B000O9GHDQ
>
> Demetri
>
. dkoloko
2009-11-19 21:09:46 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 2:10 PM, MH <hoagy-CSKG04oV0g/***@public.gmane.org> wrote:

>
> Do you know of any videos of folks using a rope saw?


____________________________________________________
A wire saw, such as I referenced, is different from a rope saw. There are a
number of videos on wire saws. Here's one,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMfnb0Q6M38

Demetri


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MH
2009-11-20 18:37:54 UTC
Permalink
. dkoloko wrote:
> A wire saw, such as I referenced, is different from a rope saw. There are a
> number of videos on wire saws. Here's one,
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMfnb0Q6M38
>
> Demetri
>

Thank you Demetri. Pretty cool.
This video seems to think a good way to destroy
one is to use the rings. So he shows how to make
a bow saw at the campsite.

The Wire Saw (5:00)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pKk--LaKzY

-Mark Hoagy
mmeiser
2009-11-20 23:58:21 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 1:37 PM, MH <hoagy-CSKG04oV0g/***@public.gmane.org> wrote:

> . dkoloko wrote:
>
>> A wire saw, such as I referenced, is different from a rope saw. There are
>> a
>> number of videos on wire saws. Here's one,
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMfnb0Q6M38
>>
>
That's about how well mine worked, I even made a bow for it the last time I
tried it. I just didn't see the point. I really ad expeded it to cut through
dead wood better.

I may one day try another if I can find one that's extremely aggressive, but
not anytime soon.

-Mike


>
>> Demetri
>>
>>
> Thank you Demetri. Pretty cool.
> This video seems to think a good way to destroy
> one is to use the rings. So he shows how to make
> a bow saw at the campsite.
>
> The Wire Saw (5:00)
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pKk--LaKzY
>
> -Mark Hoagy
>
> _______________________________________________
> Touring mailing list
> Touring-***@public.gmane.org
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> Unsubscribe or list settings:
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d***@public.gmane.org
2009-07-13 15:29:09 UTC
Permalink
I'm going to buy a netbook for touring and am trying to decide between the
SSD and a regular hard drive.  I've read that the SSD is less likely t
o break from dropping, etc.



I would like to hear from people that actually have a netbook that they tou
r with and whether they are happy with their SSD or their HD and if they ha
d it to do over again what they would purchase.



Daryl Lewis

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Unsubscribe or list settings:
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Pann McCuaig
2009-07-13 15:35:35 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 15:29, daryl.lewis-***@public.gmane.org wrote:

> I'm going to buy a netbook for touring and am trying to decide between the
> SSD and a regular hard drive.  I've read that the SSD is less likely t
> o break from dropping, etc.
>
> I would like to hear from people that actually have a netbook that they tou
> r with and whether they are happy with their SSD or their HD and if they ha
> d it to do over again what they would purchase.

Daryl,

I have an ASUS 1000 with 40G of SSD (one 8G and one 32G) and no HD. I
would do it again.

I bumped the stock RAM from 1G to 2G and currently run Xubuntu 9.04 with
no swap partition. All works well.

I don't need 160G of storage in a netbook, and I refuse to worry about
whether the SSD will fail from excessive writes before the HD would fail
from a mechanical issue, whether inbuilt or resulting from trauma. I
also refuse to worry about relative replacement cost. I like quiet, cool
and long battery life.

Of course, YMMV.

Cheers,
Pann
--
geek by nature, Linux by choice L I N U X .~.
The Choice /V\
http://vps.ourmanpann.com/oss/ of a GNU /( )\
Generation ^^-^^
Ken Caruso
2009-07-13 15:51:26 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 8:29 AM, <daryl.lewis-***@public.gmane.org> wrote:

>
>
> I'm going to buy a netbook for touring and am trying to decide between the
> SSD and a regular hard drive. I've read that the SSD is less likely t
> o break from dropping, etc.


There is less that can wrong. In addition to dropping worries, you don't
have to worry as much about heat, dust, accidentally packing it next to a
magnet, and the fact that hard drives especially tiny ones fail more often.

>
> I would like to hear from people that actually have a netbook that they tou
> r with and whether they are happy with their SSD or their HD and if they ha
> d it to do over again what they would purchase.


I have two Asus EEE PC netbooks. I run Windows XP on one and Ubuntu Linux on
the other. Both have been dropped, packed, subjected to the alkaline dust
and dirt of the black rock desert. Both still work fine, I have had one
almost two years and the other for about a year.

I do not regret choosing SSD and it is one of the primary reasons I bought
them. The only reasons I can think of for wanting a large hard drive while
touring are carrying around television or movies to watch, or wanting to
offload lots of pictures from your camera to your laptop. Even then you
could always pack a very small USB hard drive for that specific purpose.

-Ken


>
>
>
>
> Daryl Lewis
>
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> Touring-***@public.gmane.org
> Browse and search the archives: http://search.bikelist.org
> Unsubscribe or list settings:
> http://www.phred.org/mailman/options/touring
>


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Jon Meinecke
2009-07-13 16:16:24 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 10:29 AM, <daryl.lewis-***@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
> I'm going to buy a netbook for touring and am trying to decide between th
e
> SSD and a regular hard drive.  I've read that the SSD is less likely to
break
> from dropping, etc.

A lot of things other than hard drive can break from dropping...
Likewise a lot of netbook parts other than the drive may be
susceptible to vibrations, moisture, dust, etc...

> I would like to hear from people that actually have a netbook

The question of hard drive reliability on tour is applicable to
notebook as well as netbook computers... If the hard drives
were especially susceptible to vibration and shock, people
who have carried a notebook on an extended tour or who commute
daily by bike carrying a notebook would be a good source of
data points.

Jon
Robert Leone
2009-07-09 11:48:10 UTC
Permalink
Dear Touring woodcutters:
I'm a fan of Valley Saw's folding pruning saws, the one that I used
last weekend had a nice wooden handle. No commercial involvement just a
satisfied user, so I don't know where to go shopping for them if you're
not near an Orchard Supply Hardware store.

Robert "yeah, blisters are fun" Leone
Ablejack Courtney
2009-07-09 14:43:39 UTC
Permalink
http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___47440
At 9.5 ounces the Sawvivor takes little precious space and the blades pack
safely into the handle.  I like it better than the Sven or an axe for bac
k country travel. Although I agree with an earlier comment that you really
don't need any tool to build a (useless, environmentally impacting) campfir
e.=0A=0A=0A

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robert clark
2009-07-09 14:48:10 UTC
Permalink
Wire or rope saws are a light, don't take up much space,
a foot or so of all direction spiral toothed saw between 2 rings.





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MH
2009-11-19 18:50:25 UTC
Permalink
As for saws I've used the Sven saw over the decades
but I've been looking at the Trail Blazer buck saw --

Sven http://campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___81057
TrBl http://campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___47444

The Trailblazer & Ka Bar (7:41)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=835wIUrN_uA

I was thinking during the cooler seasons of
how to dry clothes, tent & sleeping bag, etc.
to go with my 4 season tent bicycle camp during
the cold & wet or snowy days.

I'm not a survivalist but it would be nice to
stay warm and dry when need arises while out
bike tour camping. During the warmer season
I don't really think of these things because
of the warm temperatures and the sun drying
things out.

-Mark Hoagy
Reinhart Bigl
2009-11-19 19:00:46 UTC
Permalink
I've been using the Trail Blazer saw for many years....and it works REALLY
well and stowes away well, but is a tad heavy for bike touring or backpac
king (I use it primarily on canoe trips). It's a bit tricky to assemble,
and make sure that the blade does not have plastic ends on it...they broke
on me while using it in sub-freezing temps. A metal-ended blade is availa
ble.
Be careful to NOT loose the hanging clip on the end of the main
storage tube...as it doubles as a stopper, keeping the contents of the
saw in the main tube. It's easy to loose, and as it's grey in colour,
it's difficult to find if dropped on anything other than concrete.
Lastly, the user will need to periodically tighten the wing nut that keep
s the blade tense.
Other than that, the saw allows it's user to put the necessary downward p
ressure to rip through logs very quickly.

Reinhart Bigl
Innisfil, ON


> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 12:50:25 -0600
> From: hoagy-CSKG04oV0g/***@public.gmane.org
> To: touring-***@public.gmane.org
> Subject: Re: chopping & splitting -was: Hatchet on tour ?
>
> As for saws I've used the Sven saw over the decades
> but I've been looking at the Trail Blazer buck saw --
>
> Sven http://campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___81057
> TrBl http://campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___47444
>
> The Trailblazer & Ka Bar (7:41)
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=835wIUrN_uA
>
> I was thinking during the cooler seasons of
> how to dry clothes, tent & sleeping bag, etc.
> to go with my 4 season tent bicycle camp during
> the cold & wet or snowy days.
>
> I'm not a survivalist but it would be nice to
> stay warm and dry when need arises while out
> bike tour camping. During the warmer season
> I don't really think of these things because
> of the warm temperatures and the sun drying
> things out.
>
> -Mark Hoagy
> _______________________________________________
> Touring mailing list
> Touring-***@public.gmane.org
> Browse and search the archives: http://search.bikelist.org
> Unsubscribe or list settings:
> http://www.phred.org/mailman/options/touring

_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live: Friends get your Flickr, Yelp, and Digg updates when they
e-mail you.
http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9691817


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Reinhart Bigl
2009-11-19 19:12:20 UTC
Permalink
...further to this, for the extra weight and cost, it would be advantag
eous to keep a second blade with the saw...two blades will fit into the one
storage tube.
Lastly (honest...) the biggest advantage that the buck saw has over the han
d saw is the amount of pressure you can put on the blade. I have gone thro
ugh a few hand saws....while they are handier and lighter, and will cut t
hrough just about anything, I've broken the blades in half while trying t
o get through medium sized logs due to the forward momentum and the blade g
etting jammed in the cut. Needless to say breaking a blade like that can b
e dangerous!

Reinhart Bigl
Innisifil, ON

> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 12:50:25 -0600
> From: hoagy-CSKG04oV0g/***@public.gmane.org
> To: touring-***@public.gmane.org
> Subject: Re: chopping & splitting -was: Hatchet on tour ?
>
> As for saws I've used the Sven saw over the decades
> but I've been looking at the Trail Blazer buck saw --
>
> Sven http://campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___81057
> TrBl http://campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___47444
>
> The Trailblazer & Ka Bar (7:41)
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=835wIUrN_uA
>
> I was thinking during the cooler seasons of
> how to dry clothes, tent & sleeping bag, etc.
> to go with my 4 season tent bicycle camp during
> the cold & wet or snowy days.
>
> I'm not a survivalist but it would be nice to
> stay warm and dry when need arises while out
> bike tour camping. During the warmer season
> I don't really think of these things because
> of the warm temperatures and the sun drying
> things out.
>
> -Mark Hoagy
> _______________________________________________
> Touring mailing list
> Touring-***@public.gmane.org
> Browse and search the archives: http://search.bikelist.org
> Unsubscribe or list settings:
> http://www.phred.org/mailman/options/touring

_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live: Make it easier for your friends to see what you’re up to on
Facebook.
http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9691816


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MH
2009-11-19 19:52:06 UTC
Permalink
Thank you Reinhart for the TrailBlazer saw review.
Do you have any idea the estimated weight?
The Sven saw is about a pound if that helps.

One thing I've heard of using is a spray lubricant like
WD-40 to help avoid friction while cutting sappy deadwood
every so often. I haven't tried it but if it helps keep
the sweat off my brow its worth a try.

-Mark Hoagy

Reinhart Bigl wrote:
> ...further to this, for the extra weight and cost, it would be advantageous to keep a second blade with the saw...two blades will fit into the one storage tube.
> Lastly (honest...) the biggest advantage that the buck saw has over the hand saw is the amount of pressure you can put on the blade. I have gone through a few hand saws....while they are handier and lighter, and will cut through just about anything, I've broken the blades in half while trying to get through medium sized logs due to the forward momentum and the blade getting jammed in the cut. Needless to say breaking a blade like that can be dangerous!
MH
2009-11-19 20:27:24 UTC
Permalink
Here's a video of the fellas spraying the saw blade with
WD-40 & there antics while gathering wood for camping --

Survival Skills: Firemaking in Snow, Part 2 (18:29)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irCer-jBTKA

MH wrote:
> One thing I've heard of using is a spray lubricant like
> WD-40 to help avoid friction while cutting sappy deadwood
> every so often. I haven't tried it but if it helps keep
> the sweat off my brow its worth a try.
Andrejs Ozolins
2009-11-19 20:55:35 UTC
Permalink
A lot of fascinating solutions that I would have enjoyed years ago.

But, in the last couple decades, I've come to back away from all the
classic camping techniques. Especially after watching the transformation
of the White Mountains into a tourist thoroughfare, I hesitate to
disturb anything on my way through the world. There are so many people
who want to play in the outdoors, who want to have the romance of a
campfire. I really hope that, today, the Boy Scouts and such are
teaching kids how to use ultra-efficient alcohol stoves etc., and
reserving fire building for emergency situations. Cooking on a fire and
telling stories around a fire was once not only fun but reasonable.
Today, I cringe when I see people burning up what should be part of the
forest floor decaying back into the cycle of renewal.

Just another .02$; ymmv, of course.

Andrejs
Ithaca NY


MH wrote:
> Thank you Reinhart for the TrailBlazer saw review.
> Do you have any idea the estimated weight?
> The Sven saw is about a pound if that helps. . . .
>
MH
2009-11-19 23:35:32 UTC
Permalink
Andrejs, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to alarm you or
anyone else about building big old campfires.
I do use my tomato can wood stove & gasoline stove
to cook on. But cool & cold camping with moisture
laden camp gear isn't my idea of outdoor comfort and
may be dangerous. So I was thinking about fire making
IF the need arises while bicycle camping. I think
most if not all the time I won't really need a campfire
to dry my fabrics. I have something else in mind but
in the meantime its all I can think of for now due to
the lack of finances.

I was watching a couple of videos about fire making
which this fellow trains eagle scouts in and think the
pointers he talks about useful all though I do have
to do more research on the subject.

Survival Skills: Firemaking, Southeast US by Nutnfancy
part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcqI1HMTIhM
part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiPnundCjQo

I hope these video examples are useful. I've found them
to be a starting point from which to learn from and a
stepping stone to stimulate further interest in the subject.

-Mark Hoagy

P.S. My apartment heating & cooking needs are taken care of
by my local utility payments for there WindTurbine program.
Last month it cost me a extra $1.80 for my electrical needs.
I'm very happy to pay it and not rely on other natural resources.

Andrejs Ozolins wrote:
> A lot of fascinating solutions that I would have enjoyed years ago.
>
> But, in the last couple decades, I've come to back away from all the
> classic camping techniques. Especially after watching the transformation
> of the White Mountains into a tourist thoroughfare, I hesitate to
> disturb anything on my way through the world. There are so many people
> who want to play in the outdoors, who want to have the romance of a
> campfire. I really hope that, today, the Boy Scouts and such are
> teaching kids how to use ultra-efficient alcohol stoves etc., and
> reserving fire building for emergency situations. Cooking on a fire and
> telling stories around a fire was once not only fun but reasonable.
> Today, I cringe when I see people burning up what should be part of the
> forest floor decaying back into the cycle of renewal.
>
> Just another .02$; ymmv, of course.
>
> Andrejs
> Ithaca NY

MH wrote:
>> Thank you Reinhart for the TrailBlazer saw review.
>> Do you have any idea the estimated weight?
>> The Sven saw is about a pound if that helps. . . .
mmeiser
2009-11-19 23:40:38 UTC
Permalink
comments below

On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 3:55 PM, Andrejs Ozolins <andrejs-***@public.gmane.org>wrote:

> A lot of fascinating solutions that I would have enjoyed years ago.
>
> But, in the last couple decades, I've come to back away from all the
> classic camping techniques. Especially after watching the transformation of
> the White Mountains into a tourist thoroughfare, I hesitate to disturb
> anything on my way through the world. There are so many people who want to
> play in the outdoors, who want to have the romance of a campfire. I really
> hope that, today, the Boy Scouts and such are teaching kids how to use
> ultra-efficient alcohol stoves etc., and reserving fire building for
> emergency situations. Cooking on a fire and telling stories around a fire
> was once not only fun but reasonable. Today, I cringe when I see people
> burning up what should be part of the forest floor decaying back into the
> cycle of renewal.
>

I completely agree with the sentiment and am a huge fan of the latest
greatest alcohol stoves. Super efficient, clean and you can get various
types of alcohol fuel nearly anywhere.

However I disagree on some of the finer points.

1) fires depend on the circumstance

First, for winter touring you can't burn anything but wood for an extended
period... hence wood is one of the few options.

Second, in national parks without a permit... yes, I completely agree... no
fires.

Stealth camping... yes, no fires.

Solo camping bonfire... completely wasteful.

Camping with a big group in where fires are specifically allowed and wood is
abundant... i.e. a campground, boy scout camp, permitting hiking trail...
why not. It's actually a fairly efficient means of heat and cooking for a
large group.

I guess my point is, we should all seek to tread as lightly as possible, but
there is a place for the campfire in the world today. Which brings me to my
second point.

2) Don't rule out wood fires as inefficient and wasteful. There are a great
number of wood stoves on the backpackinglight.com forums. And let me say
that light isn't simply about weight. The leave no trace ethic runs deep
there. You'll see most of these designs run on twigs and have bottoms so
they don't even so much as leave a scorch mark. They're increasingly
thrifty, clean and efficient.

3) Reading this I have to say you'd love the stove I'm prototyping right
now for my own personal use. It's extremely thrifty on wood and clean. I'm
trying to get it to the point it'll pack flat and work on a picnic table
without burning it. It's not quite far enough along to share, but it's
showing promise. I know I've posted this 8 second video before so pardon
the repost, but it's based on this little stove made out of a 32oz Heineken
or fosters can:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mmeiser2/tags/woodgasstove/

Again, thanks for your sentiments btw. They are right on. With all this
talk of wood chopping hardware you'd think we were all building bonfires,
but I'm pretty sure noone has that in mind.

I think many of my own comments here about wood fires could be misconstrued
as being "burn happy", but alas everything has it's place. The use of fire
is a matter of appropriateness as well as necessity.

Thanks,

-Mike




>
> Just another .02$; ymmv, of course.
>
> Andrejs
> Ithaca NY
>
>
> MH wrote:
>
>> Thank you Reinhart for the TrailBlazer saw review.
>> Do you have any idea the estimated weight?
>> The Sven saw is about a pound if that helps. . . .
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Touring mailing list
> Touring-***@public.gmane.org
> Browse and search the archives: http://search.bikelist.org
> Unsubscribe or list settings:
> http://www.phred.org/mailman/options/touring
>


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MH
2009-11-20 10:22:32 UTC
Permalink
Mike you may be interested in a couple of email groups that
help folks with their wood stove gasification projects. There
both quite active most of the time especially gasification.

Stoves -- Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_listserv.repp.org

Gasification -- Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_listserv.repp.org

They both have separate archives to look things up.
They're interested in helping developing nations but
also developed nations as well. Theres folks from
around the world including well educated individuals
which helps stimulate my mind & maybe yours.

I think you'll find it interesting & helpful - see what you think,
-Mark Hoagy

mmeiser wrote:
> Again, thanks for your sentiments btw. They are right on. With all this
> talk of wood chopping hardware you'd think we were all building bonfires,
> but I'm pretty sure none has that in mind.
> -Mike
mmeiser
2009-11-20 15:15:15 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 5:22 AM, MH <hoagy-CSKG04oV0g/***@public.gmane.org> wrote:

> Mike you may be interested in a couple of email groups that
> help folks with their wood stove gasification projects. There
> both quite active most of the time especially gasification.
>
> Stoves -- Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_listserv.repp.org
>
> Gasification -- Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_listserv.repp.org
>
> They both have separate archives to look things up.
> They're interested in helping developing nations but
> also developed nations as well. Theres folks from
> around the world including well educated individuals
> which helps stimulate my mind & maybe yours.
>
> I think you'll find it interesting & helpful - see what you think,
> -Mark Hoagy
>

Thanks mark. I've subscribed.

Also did some searches against the archives. Found only one reference to
"backpack", but yes, the great wealth of wood gassification designs being
developed for developing countries is definitely informative. I was aware
that this was going on just not in so many places with so many initiatives.
In fact someone gave a presentation on it at the TED conference a year or
two ago. Apparently respiratory related illness is the number one killer in
developing countries... or was that water borne illness?

-Mike



>
> mmeiser wrote:
>
>> Again, thanks for your sentiments btw. They are right on. With all this
>> talk of wood chopping hardware you'd think we were all building bonfires,
>> but I'm pretty sure none has that in mind.
>> -Mike
>>
>
>


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MH
2009-11-20 16:53:12 UTC
Permalink
>> Stoves -- Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
>> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_listserv.repp.org

mmeiser wrote:
> Also did some searches against the archives. Found only one reference to
> "backpack", but yes, the great wealth of wood gassification designs being
> developed for developing countries is definitely informative. I was aware
> that this was going on just not in so many places with so many initiatives.
> In fact someone gave a presentation on it at the TED conference a year or
> two ago. Apparently respiratory related illness is the number one killer in
> developing countries... or was that water borne illness?
>
> -Mike

The last interesting discussion I thought was on the
[Stoves] Volcano Kettle walls
which ran from 10/31/2009 to 11/09/2009

I don't know which illness is worse but folks cook
indoors with the smoke inside which really surprises
me. Of course they do cook outside too which is
better but my gully here in the states we haven't
cooked in caves for sometime. Although it was just
a couple decades ago folks burned liquid kerosene
without ventilation inside their homes and my still.

-Mark Hoagy
Reinhart Bigl
2009-11-20 16:02:51 UTC
Permalink
I'd say (without actually weighing the saw) that it's a couple pounds (with
the extra blade).
Seeing as most of the components are aluminum, it's fairly light.

Interesting about the WD-40 application...would certainly make it easier to
saw, but then ya have to bring the lube with you as well. I'll keep tha
t one in mind for my next canoe trip!
The friction isn't the issue (sorry, I should have elaborated...) it's th
e forward and back motion. Because much force is needed at times when sawi
ng through larger logs, the inertia needed to get through the log plus th
e sudden stop at times will flex the blade at the point of transition of th
e forward and back motion...and because the blade is most vulnerable at thi
s point means that if the blade snaps, the forward motion could act again
st the user in a most unfortunate way.

The Buck (Trailblazer) saw allows a more downward force to be placed on the
saw...that coupled with the fact that the blade is fixed at both ends and
the very aggressive blade means that it's a much safer and efficient cuttin
g tool.

Reinhart Bigl
Innisfil, ON

> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 13:52:06 -0600
> From: hoagy-CSKG04oV0g/***@public.gmane.org
> To: rbigl-***@public.gmane.org
> CC: touring-***@public.gmane.org
> Subject: Re: chopping & splitting -was: Hatchet on tour ?
>
> Thank you Reinhart for the TrailBlazer saw review.
> Do you have any idea the estimated weight?
> The Sven saw is about a pound if that helps.
>
> One thing I've heard of using is a spray lubricant like
> WD-40 to help avoid friction while cutting sappy deadwood
> every so often. I haven't tried it but if it helps keep
> the sweat off my brow its worth a try.
>
> -Mark Hoagy
>
> Reinhart Bigl wrote:
> > ...further to this, for the extra weight and cost, it would be adva
ntageous to keep a second blade with the saw...two blades will fit into the
one storage tube.
> > Lastly (honest...) the biggest advantage that the buck saw has over the
hand saw is the amount of pressure you can put on the blade. I have gone
through a few hand saws....while they are handier and lighter, and will c
ut through just about anything, I've broken the blades in half while tryi
ng to get through medium sized logs due to the forward momentum and the bla
de getting jammed in the cut. Needless to say breaking a blade like that c
an be dangerous!
>

_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live: Keep your friends up to date with what you do online.
http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9691815


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Jon Meinecke
2009-11-19 19:25:05 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 12:50 PM, MH <hoagy-CSKG04oV0g/***@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
> [wood chopping]
>
> I was thinking during the cooler seasons of
> how to dry clothes, tent & sleeping bag, etc.
> to go with my 4 season tent bicycle camp during
> the cold & wet or snowy days.

Hmmm, I presume you want to saw/split/chop
wood to burn, not to build a clothes drying rack. %^)

If so, drying "high-tech" fabrics near an open flame may
not be the best idea... I don't even like to pitch my tent
too close to a fire ring. Sparks, obviously, are a
concern, but even just smoke smell on sleeping
bag, tent, coats, etc is undesirable for me...

Jon
MH
2009-11-19 20:02:03 UTC
Permalink
Jon,
I can understand your interest in avoiding smoky
fabrics but I was think of the coals doing the
drying after the smoke clears. I suppose I could
head into the laundromat to wash & dry but I don't
always have a lot to spend so how do I go about
building that clothes rack? I've heard of fire
reflectors and clothes lines. I guess thats a start.
Maybe I should of stayed in boy scouts or joined
the military and learned some survival skills.
The US military wouldn't take me although I tried
three times. -Mark Hoagy

Jon Meinecke wrote:
> Hmmm, I presume you want to saw/split/chop
> wood to burn, not to build a clothes drying rack. %^)
>
> If so, drying "high-tech" fabrics near an open flame may
> not be the best idea... I don't even like to pitch my tent
> too close to a fire ring. Sparks, obviously, are a
> concern, but even just smoke smell on sleeping
> bag, tent, coats, etc is undesirable for me...
mmeiser
2009-11-19 23:11:22 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 2:25 PM, Jon Meinecke <pedal2bliss-***@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
> If so, drying "high-tech" fabrics near an open flame may
> not be the best idea... I don't even like to pitch my tent
> too close to a fire ring. Sparks, obviously, are a
> concern, but even just smoke smell on sleeping
> bag, tent, coats, etc is undesirable for me...
>

I'll second that... fires are definitely not the way to dry clothes. The
only way to dry clotheswhen it is below freezing is either to go someplace
heated and indoors or simply continue wearing them damp to let your body
heat and evaporation do their thing.

Note: I don't recommend doing the latter (continue wearing them) with really
wet clothes. Works best for single items... i.e. wet gloves... wet boots.

The realy key with winter touring is to minimizing body moisuture by
regulating your exercise and layers.

Also, another basic, never go to bed in wet clothes or even dmp clothes
unless you want to freeze. In the winter I carry a second set of clothes I
use only sleeping in and lounging around camp in AFTER I've cooled down for
the evening.

I will on occasion mix outer or mid layers if they seem to be dry. The key
is you don't want any moisture in your base or mid layers where it can draw
heat straight off your skin.

Anyway, I'm off topic. :)

-Mike


>
> Jon
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robert clark
2009-11-19 20:40:31 UTC
Permalink
Used to haveone with a good design for that , laurel/bay leaf shaped
blade is pretty thick,.. edge , somewhat cold chisel like,
short/blunt as opposed to a long thin taper .

to use to split wood , since the back of the blade stays thick almost
to the tip ,
you could whack on the back of the blade with another piece of wood
to split up branches for fires ..
that and a rope saw would let you build a decent campfire , weighs
less than a hatchet and a durable edge means it can serve additional
functions .

lost it somewhere along the many address changes ,

with summer being also high risk fire season , open pit fire-making
is rare anyways.
mmeiser
2009-11-19 23:21:19 UTC
Permalink
comments below

On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 3:40 PM, robert clark <fietsbob-***@public.gmane.org> wrote:

> Used to haveone with a good design for that , laurel/bay leaf shaped
> blade is pretty thick,.. edge , somewhat cold chisel like,
> short/blunt as opposed to a long thin taper .
>

I assume you mean the Sami or Leuku based on your description?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leuku

Am looking for more options and suggestions in the knife category.

to use to split wood , since the back of the blade stays thick almost
> to the tip ,
> you could whack on the back of the blade with another piece of wood
> to split up branches for fires ..
> that and a rope saw would let you build a decent campfire , weighs
> less than a hatchet and a durable edge means it can serve additional
> functions .
>
> lost it somewhere along the many address changes ,
>
>

> with summer being also high risk fire season , open pit fire-making
> is rare anyways.
>

I think we're talking mostly about winter camping at this point and I
specifically am interested in wood chopping for an ultra-light wood stove
(enclosed flame) myself.

That said, yeah, open pit fire opportunities can be rare depending on where
you tour. Depends on the people, the places and the type of touring the do.
But this is why I started the thread suggesting people look more into
knives. No sense carrying a saw or axe if you're not going to use it, but a
good knife is a very versatile piece of hardware.

-Mike

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d***@public.gmane.org
2009-11-19 21:10:29 UTC
Permalink
I finally gave up on anything that "chops" for my outings. My brother has a
scar on his lower leg from a mis-guided hatchet blow, I have one on my hand
and am thankful I did not have a serious eye injury from another hatchet
related incident. (I was taking the limbs off a dead and fallen tree when a
rotted limb tip broke off and hit me in the eye.)

Hatchets should be thought of as partially guided missles and are dangerous.
I use a folding Sven saw. It has a very sharp saw blade that folds into its
aluminum handle / frame. When sharp, it cuts like a dream. It is faster,
more efficient and many times lighter than hatchet. For casual evening
fires, I only cut up small stuff that does not require splitting.

Dave West

-----Original Message-----
Message: 4
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 09:05:05 -0500
From: ". dkoloko" <dkoloko-***@public.gmane.org>
Subject: Re: chopping & splitting -was: Hatchet on tour ?


> Ka-Bar Bowie (4:31 with field use operations)
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49RulxpVAAA
>
> From reading & viewing other sources the knife is just under a pound
> (15.6 ounces) and about $60.
> The knife sounds like a good value but I thought you folks might know
> of others that maybe better when bicycle tour camping in the woods.
>
> -Mark Hoagy
mmeiser
2009-11-19 22:19:12 UTC
Permalink
Dave... I actually cut clean through my thumb nail with a wood saw when I
was much younger.

The blade of my v-shaped bow saw jammed in the wood while I was on the away
stroke (sawing quite vigourously) and then sprung out under the pressure
from the momentum in my arm. It came down right on my thumb nail. I was
rather amazed at how little it took to cut right through the middle of my
nail and considered myself lucky it didn't go to far into the flesh below or
end up landing in the fleshy part of my hand. Finger and thumbnail injuries
still makes me cringe to this day.

I guess the point is every tool has it's dangers and everyone has their
personal hangups or preferences.

Personally I too am pretty hatchet adverse. Chopping wood with a hatchet is
to intimate with the fingers for me. I like the thought of a well controlled
knife blade used with a piece of wood as a mallet. Both hands are firmly
placed where they can't receive any blade damage. Just as long as you don't
go flipping the knife or a piece of wood off in an odd direction (like the
face) all you have to worry about is smacking yourself in the hand. That I
can deal with.

But heh, everyone has their hangups. :)

-Mike

On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 4:10 PM, <d.j.west-***@public.gmane.org> wrote:

> I finally gave up on anything that "chops" for my outings. My brother has
> a
> scar on his lower leg from a mis-guided hatchet blow, I have one on my hand
> and am thankful I did not have a serious eye injury from another hatchet
> related incident. (I was taking the limbs off a dead and fallen tree when
> a
> rotted limb tip broke off and hit me in the eye.)
>
> Hatchets should be thought of as partially guided missles and are
> dangerous.
> I use a folding Sven saw. It has a very sharp saw blade that folds into
> its
> aluminum handle / frame. When sharp, it cuts like a dream. It is faster,
> more efficient and many times lighter than hatchet. For casual evening
> fires, I only cut up small stuff that does not require splitting.
>
> Dave West
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 09:05:05 -0500
> From: ". dkoloko" <dkoloko-***@public.gmane.org>
> Subject: Re: chopping & splitting -was: Hatchet on tour ?
>
>
> > Ka-Bar Bowie (4:31 with field use operations)
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49RulxpVAAA
> >
> > From reading & viewing other sources the knife is just under a pound
> > (15.6 ounces) and about $60.
> > The knife sounds like a good value but I thought you folks might know
> > of others that maybe better when bicycle tour camping in the woods.
> >
> > -Mark Hoagy
>
> _______________________________________________
> Touring mailing list
> Touring-***@public.gmane.org
> Browse and search the archives: http://search.bikelist.org
> Unsubscribe or list settings:
> http://www.phred.org/mailman/options/touring
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mmeiser
2009-11-19 22:55:02 UTC
Permalink
Quick tips for breaking down really long and large branches over an open
fire in absence of an axe or saw.

Disclaimer: some people may disagree with these tips, but if you don't have
a saw or axe they could come in handy.


1) Use leverage between two trees to break long branches.

One of my favorite tips is to find two strong trees placed as closely
together as possible. Perhaps even a V in a big tree.

Simply stick the end of your long branch in between them, grasp it at the
long end and pull. Use leverage to do all the work.

Works great for those really long big branches about 3-4" in diameter. I.E.
a good and dead fallen pine tree. Be sure to start by breaking at the small
end first. When it gets to big and sort to break anymore see my next tip.



2) Burn long branches in the middle

I'm sure I everyone does this, but it doesn't hurt to reiterate.

If you don't have a saw burn extremely long fairly big branches in the
middle.

Most people make the mistake of burning long branches from the end but if
you burn them from the middle one branch becomes two... then two branches
become four.

Because you're essentially doubling the logs on the fire with each burn you
can start by putting 2 ten foot lengths across the fire, then end up with 4
five foot lengths and finally you'll have 8 two foot lengths.

In this way the intensity of the fire multiplies as it burns and you need
gather less small and medium sized firewood.

Of course you'll probably want to put some of that firewood to the side as
you break it down and not burn it all at once. Just be sure to put it
somewhere where no one will burn themselves on it and it won't light
anything else on fire.

This technique makes it much easier and quicker to gather wood and minimizes
chopping, sawing and breaking. Particularly if you don't have an axe or
saw.

Furthermore, you don't need to wait for branches to burn all the way
through. If they're long enough you can burn them partially through and
then pull them from the fire and use leverage to break them. This is
particularly useful when you've got extremely long branches that are just a
hare to big for you to break them with your own strength.

A good quick burn for 15-45 minutes in the middle of a ten foot branch and
you'll be able to break it no problem. Let shorter branches burn through as
you won't be able to get enough leverage on them or handle them without
burning yourself.

Just don't go crazy with eight logs sticking out in all different directions
lest someone may trip over them and be sure to not leave half burnt logs
either sticking out of the fire or lying around at the end of the night as
they could catch something else on fire.

Peace,

-Mike


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Reinhart Bigl
2009-11-20 16:11:36 UTC
Permalink
Agreed...I've given up on carrying a hatchet or axe for many years.... they
are almost completely useless at camp.
Saws are MUCH more efficiant...and given the amount of deadfall and availab
le kindling in most forests, and the size of fire actually needed, the
only thing I used a hatchet for the last couple times I've actually carrie
d one is to bang in tent poles...but even then, there's usually plenty of
rocks around for that.

Reinhart Bigl
Innisfil, ON

> From: d.j.west-***@public.gmane.org
> To: touring-***@public.gmane.org
> Subject: Re: chopping & splitting -was: Hatchet on tour ?
> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:10:29 -0500
>
> I finally gave up on anything that "chops" for my outings. My brother ha
s a
> scar on his lower leg from a mis-guided hatchet blow, I have one on my
hand
> and am thankful I did not have a serious eye injury from another hatchet
> related incident. (I was taking the limbs off a dead and fallen tree whe
n a
> rotted limb tip broke off and hit me in the eye.)
>
> Hatchets should be thought of as partially guided missles and are dangero
us.
> I use a folding Sven saw. It has a very sharp saw blade that folds into
its
> aluminum handle / frame. When sharp, it cuts like a dream. It is fast
er,
> more efficient and many times lighter than hatchet. For casual evening
> fires, I only cut up small stuff that does not require splitting.
>
> Dave West
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 09:05:05 -0500
> From: ". dkoloko" <dkoloko-***@public.gmane.org>
> Subject: Re: chopping & splitting -was: Hatchet on tour ?
>
>
> > Ka-Bar Bowie (4:31 with field use operations)
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49RulxpVAAA
> >
> > From reading & viewing other sources the knife is just under a pound
> > (15.6 ounces) and about $60.
> > The knife sounds like a good value but I thought you folks might know
> > of others that maybe better when bicycle tour camping in the woods.
> >
> > -Mark Hoagy
>
> _______________________________________________
> Touring mailing list
> Touring-***@public.gmane.org
> Browse and search the archives: http://search.bikelist.org
> Unsubscribe or list settings:
> http://www.phred.org/mailman/options/touring

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Chris Dooley
2009-11-19 23:23:52 UTC
Permalink
I don't do fires when I cycle tour, and I have actually more or less given
up on fires altogether for camping, even in true wilderness areas where the
ecological impact of a fire would be negligible. Fire-making is a good (and
sometimes critical) skill to have, but I have found that the sensory
pleasure of a fire is eclipsed by the smell and grime, prolonged cooking
times, and my sensitivity to just how brushed-out sites that are camped even
a couple of times a year can become. I stay warm by dressing in appropriate
clothes and taking shelter in conditions where my foul weather gear won't
keep me dry and where getting wet carries a hypothermia risk. I cook with
alcohol when I cycle and on wilderness trips of under ten days, white gas if
I'm away for longer.

I would imagine that it would be rare that one would not be able to find
sufficient deadfall (or, in built-up areas, small dimensional lumber, like
pallet wood) that one could not make a suitable fire. And for most
campfires, one won't likely want to use wood much larger than one could
break by stepping on it. In the event that one needed to cut something, I
concur with those who have suggested that a saw offers more bang for the
buck than a hatchet. It's lighter, faster and safer. I carry a folding bow
saw with a couple of blades when canoeing for portage cleanup, and it is by
degrees more efficient than a hatchet or even a half-axe would be. Such a
saw could, I suppose, be lashed to a top- or down-tube or to a rear rack,
depending on how you travel.

For making kindling, etc., folks might consider something like this:
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=54871&cat=1,51222&ap=1
It's cheap, compact, light and virtually indestructible. It reminds me of
the love child of a utility knife and a shingle froe. I have one in my tool
box for making shims, etc, and to keep me from abusing other tools. I'm
sure some equivalent is available in the US; the manufacturer appears to be
Vessel.

Cheers,

Chris

Chris Dooley
Email: Chris_Dooley-***@public.gmane.org
Tel: (204)-477-0794
mmeiser
2009-11-20 18:25:03 UTC
Permalink
Chris,

First thanks for the knife recommendation of the hacking knife.

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=54871&cat=1,51222&ap=1

Seems to be made specifically for use with a mallet.

more comments below

On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 6:23 PM, Chris Dooley <Chris_Dooley-***@public.gmane.org> wrote:

> I don't do fires when I cycle tour, and I have actually more or less given
> up on fires altogether for camping, even in true wilderness areas where the
> ecological impact of a fire would be negligible. Fire-making is a good
> (and
> sometimes critical) skill to have, but I have found that the sensory
> pleasure of a fire is eclipsed by the smell and grime, prolonged cooking
> times, and my sensitivity to just how brushed-out sites that are camped
> even
> a couple of times a year can become.


Generally I couldn't agree more about designated camping areas becoming
"brushed out", but at the same time the new generation of wood stoves made
by the innovators over on the backpackinglight.com forums use amazingly tiny
amounts of wood. It's really a different world. You can litterally make
dinner on a few pine cones.

Indeed one of my favorite things to do as of discovering these stoves is to
go through old fire rings at campgrounds and grab charcolized wood remains.
A good wood stove can not only make dinner but burn for an hour on a chunk
of wood the size of your fist.

The thing that absolutely hooked me though is becoming what could only be
called a "wood gourmet".

Because I use such tiny amounts of fuel I've become free to focus on the
quality of the wood instead of quantity. I've started sampling and getting
interested in different types of wood in a way I never had thought of trees
before. It's given me another way to look at and get interested in the
variety of tree species. It's a similar relationship to a hunter and prey,
or an interest in edible plants.

BTW, have you tried a candle lantern?

I've heard some people who adverse to camp fires but love the sensory input
of fire use an age old collapsible candle lantern.

What's more if you're not opposed to the smell they make citronella candles
that have the added benifit of being anti-mosquito. (BTW, I sort of like the
citronella small). I've dabbled with these during the summer, but I find a
tiny bit of campfire smoke, even if just a tiny smoldering fire, to be far
more effective a deterrent to mosquittos, deer flies and other pests in the
summer evenings.


> I stay warm by dressing in appropriate
> clothes and taking shelter in conditions where my foul weather gear won't
> keep me dry and where getting wet carries a hypothermia risk. I cook with
> alcohol when I cycle and on wilderness trips of under ten days, white gas
> if
> I'm away for longer.
>

Regulating body temp is always key. Not just through dressing appropriately
and putting on / taking off layers but also through regulating riding and
exersize intensity. There's a blog I love to read by a world class rider in
Juneau AK that is extremely well written on the subject of riding in the
extreme cold, and worse freezing rain or "slain" (sleet / snow / rain /
slush) as she calls it: http://arcticglass.blogspot.com/

I've used both alcohol and whitegas fairly extensively. Alcohol is a
favorite in the summer and fall, but winter requires a bit something more.
Whitegas is more effective in the winter, but admittedly right now I'm
focused on wood because I'd not taken it seriously until this winter. It's
the new generation of highly efficient wood gasification that has me hooked.


> I would imagine that it would be rare that one would not be able to find
> sufficient deadfall (or, in built-up areas, small dimensional lumber, like
> pallet wood) that one could not make a suitable fire. And for most
> campfires, one won't likely want to use wood much larger than one could
> break by stepping on it. In the event that one needed to cut something, I
> concur with those who have suggested that a saw offers more bang for the
> buck than a hatchet. It's lighter, faster and safer. I carry a folding bow
> saw with a couple of blades when canoeing for portage cleanup, and it is by
> degrees more efficient than a hatchet or even a half-axe would be. Such a
> saw could, I suppose, be lashed to a top- or down-tube or to a rear rack,
> depending on how you travel.
>
> For making kindling, etc., folks might consider something like this:
> http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=54871&cat=1,51222&ap=1
> It's cheap, compact, light and virtually indestructible. It reminds me of
> the love child of a utility knife and a shingle froe. I have one in my tool
> box for making shims, etc, and to keep me from abusing other tools. I'm
> sure some equivalent is available in the US; the manufacturer appears to be
> Vessel.
>

Again thanks most of all for the knife tip. It looks a little bulky with its
sheath and may not work as well for food preparation or whittling some fire
sticks but I may actually try one of these.

-Mike


>
> Cheers,
>
> Chris
>
> Chris Dooley
> Email: Chris_Dooley-***@public.gmane.org
> Tel: (204)-477-0794
>
> _______________________________________________
> Touring mailing list
> Touring-***@public.gmane.org
> Browse and search the archives: http://search.bikelist.org
> Unsubscribe or list settings:
> http://www.phred.org/mailman/options/touring
>


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Keith Ley
2009-11-19 23:46:16 UTC
Permalink
Seems like a tool like this might come in handy though you'd need to be car
eful when using it.



http://www.amazon.com/Gerber-31-000082-Machete-Junior-Sheath/dp/B001PTGOJG





Keith





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Ablejack Courtney
2009-11-20 06:01:04 UTC
Permalink
I like the Sawvivor.  Much like the Sven saw but lighter at 9 oz.  Blad
es store in backbone when folded.  Won't split logs like an axe or hatche
t but is convenient.  Rope saws are not a good option in my opinion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SM64uR1RKAM
Which reminds me, I've got to pick up another.  My friend whom I lent it
too seems to like it too!


--- On Thu, 11/19/09, Keith Ley <keith_ley-***@public.gmane.org> wrote:

From: Keith Ley <keith_ley-***@public.gmane.org>
Subject: chopping & splitting -was: Hatchet on tour ?
To: touring-***@public.gmane.org
Date: Thursday, November 19, 2009, 11:46 PM



Seems like a tool like this might come in handy though you'd need to be car
eful when using it.



http://www.amazon.com/Gerber-31-000082-Machete-Junior-Sheath/dp/B001PTGOJG





Keith




                         
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MH
2009-11-20 07:56:38 UTC
Permalink
I did a youtube search with Sawvivor Sven
and the video it presented was a rope saw
that weighs 3 ounces with plastic bag --

The Unbelievable Saw (9:31)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDYxwmTnct0
The fellow who demos it is sold on it. $22
It does cut pretty darned fast I thought.

-Mark Hoagy

Ablejack Courtney wrote:
> I like the Sawvivor. Much like the Sven saw but lighter at 9 oz. Blad
> es store in backbone when folded. Won't split logs like an axe or hatche
> t but is convenient. Rope saws are not a good option in my opinion.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SM64uR1RKAM
> Which reminds me, I've got to pick up another. My friend whom I lent it
> too seems to like it too!
MH
2009-11-21 13:52:06 UTC
Permalink
I thought I'd share with you of
what I learned watching these videos
about these hand powered chainsaws.

pocket saw review (5:43)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OURvhpBLDUk
A comparison of the Pocket Chainsaw by Supreme Products
and the Sabercut Saw by Ultimate Survival Technologies.

GoingGear.com - UST Sabercut Saw (1:39)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEq_afPYHv8

hand powered chain saw (2:05)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjC_gPnxe5E

You know I think I'll take my leather gloves
along to avoid blisters and discomfort when
camping. Hopefully I'll remember.

-Mark Hoagy

MH wrote:
> The Unbelievable Saw (9:31)
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDYxwmTnct0
> The fellow who demos it is sold on it. $22
> It does cut pretty darned fast I thought.
mmeiser
2009-11-20 18:19:21 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 6:46 PM, Keith Ley <keith_ley-***@public.gmane.org> wrote:

>
>
> Seems like a tool like this might come in handy though you'd need to be car
> eful when using it.
>
>
>
> http://www.amazon.com/Gerber-31-000082-Machete-Junior-Sheath/dp/B001PTGOJG
>

Seems a bit big at 18.75" long / 10.75" blade.

15.4 oz. Not to bad considering the size.

Price seems to cheap for what it is. Not sure how it can only be $21 or a
Gerber.

It can't be used with an improvised mallet / baton with all those teeth on
the backside though.


Gerber also has some interesting other options like these chisel ended
versions.

http://www.amazon.com/Columbia-River-2013-Bellied-Serrated/dp/B001EDIYM8/

http://www.amazon.com/Columbia-River-2012-Ringed-Bellied/dp/B001BG6WGS/

The second is only 8 oz, amazing, but may be to light to use to chop.

Still not convinced any of these are right, they seem to be either to big,
to over the top and to aggressive compared to the Leuku pictured on
wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leuku

I have done a lot of research and the Leuku all seem to be made of a lighter
weight / thinner blade then other options like the survival knives, bush
knives, machete and the like. This seems to make them a little less ideal
for splitting.... but then they are lighter in the pack.

There are also the modern day versions of the Khukuri knives, which come in
a huge variety of sizes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khukuri_knife

Ultimately I think I'm looking for something between the size of a bush
knife and a Leuku / Sami knife. As small as I can get while still being able
to process 3" logs.

Also, some recent posts may cause me to reevaluate my interest in hand chain
saws or cord saws. There may well be something better out there that I
haven't.

For the meantime tough I may start with some old fixed blade hunting knives
that I inherited from my dad that I'd never even considered carrying before.

-Mike



>
>
>
> Keith
>
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
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MH
2009-11-21 09:35:36 UTC
Permalink
mmeiser wrote:
> Ultimately I think I'm looking for something between the size of a bush
> knife and a Leuku / Sami knife. As small as I can get while still being able
> to process 3" logs.

Mike, another possibility is the Short Ka-Bar heavy bowie knife.
With a 7 3/8" blade rather than the 9" blade like its big brother.
They both have 1085 carbon steel. 12 5/8" overall rather than
14 1/4" overall for the Ka-Bar large heavy bowie.
As for weight the short is 0.8 pounds & the large 0.9 lbs.

Just a thought,
-Mark Hoagy
MH
2009-11-21 14:03:46 UTC
Permalink
mmeiser wrote:
>> Ultimately I think I'm looking for something between the size of a bush
>> knife and a Leuku / Sami knife. As small as I can get while still
>> being able to process 3" logs.

I wonder if something like this would work.
One of the reviewers didn't think it would
replace a heavier survival sort of knife.

Cold Steel Belt Knife Finn Bear Md: 20PC $11
http://www.amazon.com/Cold-Steel-Belt-Knife-Finn/dp/B000Q99RXG

Weight: 2.8 oz. - Blade Thickness: 2.5mm - Blade Length: 4" -
Handle: 4 1/2" long. High Impact Polypropylene -
Steel: 4116 Krupp Stainless - Overall Length: 8 1/2"- S
Sheath: Cordura Sheath Mfg No: 20PC Manufacturer: Cold Steel
chuck davis
2009-11-21 14:54:20 UTC
Permalink
http://www.woodmanspal.com/index.html

..................what D. Boone wood carry today

On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 8:03 AM, MH <hoagy-CSKG04oV0g/***@public.gmane.org> wrote:

> mmeiser wrote:
>
>> Ultimately I think I'm looking for something between the size of a bush
>>> knife and a Leuku / Sami knife. As small as I can get while still being
>>> able to process 3" logs.
>>>
>>
> I wonder if something like this would work.
> One of the reviewers didn't think it would
> replace a heavier survival sort of knife.
>
> Cold Steel Belt Knife Finn Bear Md: 20PC $11
> http://www.amazon.com/Cold-Steel-Belt-Knife-Finn/dp/B000Q99RXG
>
> Weight: 2.8 oz. - Blade Thickness: 2.5mm - Blade Length: 4" -
> Handle: 4 1/2" long. High Impact Polypropylene -
> Steel: 4116 Krupp Stainless - Overall Length: 8 1/2 "- S
> Sheath: Cordura Sheath Mfg No: 20PC Manufacturer: Cold Steel
>
> _______________________________________________
> Touring mailing list
> Touring-***@public.gmane.org
> Browse and search the archives: http://search.bikelist.org
> Unsubscribe or list settings:
> http://www.phred.org/mailman/options/touring
>



--
Chuck Davis
OK Velo Sales (Okvelo-***@public.gmane.org)
Tulsa, OK

When ya really bored and/or otherwise want to understand just how cool a
dude I yam, czech the deranged drivel and nonsense below:

http://chucksbikes.blogspot.com/
http://okvelo.blogspot.com/
http://allweighscranky.blogspot.com/


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MH
2009-11-21 15:18:24 UTC
Permalink
mmeiser wrote:
>>> Ultimately I think I'm looking for something between the size of a bush
>>> knife and a Leuku / Sami knife. As small as I can get while still
>>> being able to process 3" logs.

MH wrote:
> I wonder if something like this would work.
> One of the reviewers didn't think it would
> replace a heavier survival sort of knife.
>
> Cold Steel Belt Knife Finn Bear Md: 20PC $11
> http://www.amazon.com/Cold-Steel-Belt-Knife-Finn/dp/B000Q99RXG
>
> Weight: 2.8 oz. - Blade Thickness: 2.5mm - Blade Length: 4" -
> Handle: 4 1/2" long. High Impact Polypropylene -
> Steel: 4116 Krupp Stainless - Overall Length: 8 1/2"- S
> Sheath: Cordura Sheath Mfg No: 20PC Manufacturer: Cold Steel

You know I guess I really didn't think this
out very well. I don't believe the Finn Bear
would chop three inch branches/logs very well
in case the saws not around. The Ka-Bar heavy
bowie in short or long versions might be a
much better choice or the Cold Steel machete.

I think I need a rest from all this research,
-Mark Hoagy
MH
2009-11-21 10:44:29 UTC
Permalink
Keith Ley wrote:
>> Seems like a tool like this might come in handy though you'd need to be car
>> eful when using it.
>>
>> http://www.amazon.com/Gerber-31-000082-Machete-Junior-Sheath/dp/B001PTGOJG
>>

mmeiser wrote:
> Seems a bit big at 18.75" long / 10.75" blade.
>
> 15.4 oz. Not to bad considering the size.
>
> Price seems to cheap for what it is. Not sure how it can only be $21 or a
> Gerber.
>
> It can't be used with an improvised mallet / baton with all those teeth on
> the backside though.

Hello fellas,
You all might take a look at this video of a $20
machete that does a pretty good job of splitting
some semi rotten wood with its 3mm thick 12" blade.
Overall length 17 5/8" with 1055 high carbon, 15.4 oz, --

Cold Steel 12" Bowie machete: Doing the Splits... well! (6:21)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6iKF5wxEac

-Mark Hoagy
MH
2009-11-21 11:21:55 UTC
Permalink
Heres a comparison of these Roman sword machetes.
I thought this would give some idea of what to
look for in the smaller sizes thats been talked about --

Cold Steel Machete VS Gerber Gator Review! (6:28)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Urj4OvlXVY0

-Mark Hoagy
mmeiser
2009-11-21 21:03:13 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 5:44 AM, MH <hoagy-CSKG04oV0g/***@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
> Hello fellas,
> You all might take a look at this video of a $20
> machete that does a pretty good job of splitting
> some semi rotten wood with its 3mm thick 12" blade.
> Overall length 17 5/8" with 1055 high carbon, 15.4 oz, --
>
> Cold Steel 12" Bowie machete: Doing the Splits... well! (6:21)
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6iKF5wxEac
>

Interesting. He addresses the thinness issue.... or as he calls it
"wedgeness". Aparently machetes and Sami knives are narrower, this makes
them less ideal for splitting, but heh... they do give you more blade for
your weight.

Also, the price is right.

Not sure where I'd go with this yet. 12" blade seems like it may be
overkill for my purposes.

-Mike


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MH
2009-11-21 21:33:55 UTC
Permalink
MH wrote:
>> Hello fellas,
>> You all might take a look at this video of a $20
>> machete that does a pretty good job of splitting
>> some semi rotten wood with its 3mm thick 12" blade.
>> Overall length 17 5/8" with 1055 high carbon, 15.4 oz, --
>>
>> Cold Steel 12" Bowie machete: Doing the Splits... well! (6:21)
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6iKF5wxEac
>>

mmeiser wrote:
> Interesting. He addresses the thinness issue.... or as he calls it
> "wedgeness". Aparently machetes and Sami knives are narrower, this makes
> them less ideal for splitting, but heh... they do give you more blade for
> your weight.
>
> Also, the price is right.
>
> Not sure where I'd go with this yet. 12" blade seems like it may be
> overkill for my purposes.
>
> -Mike

I agree Mike but the price is right & weight. I'm not
concerned about defensive maneuvers so I'm pretty sure
the blade ground angle will do just fine splitting wood.
The length should be great for chopping wood. Maybe
January I can order a Cold Steel 12" Bowie Machete &
the Unbelievable Saw by Supreme Products. I'll be happy
to give a report on them.

-Mark Hoagy
MH
2009-11-22 00:10:44 UTC
Permalink
> I'm not
> concerned about defensive maneuvers so I'm pretty sure
> the [original] blade ground angle will do just fine splitting wood.
> The length should be great for chopping wood. Maybe
> January I can order a Cold Steel 12" Bowie Machete &
> the Unbelievable Saw by Supreme Products. I'll be happy
> to give a report on them.

I'm thinking of just order the two items from --

Bowie Machete 12" $21
http://www.amazon.com/Cold-Steel-Bowie-Machete-12/dp/B0017KS5DQ

Pocket Chainsaw $29
http://www.amazon.com/Pocket-Chainsaw-1102/dp/B000LNQA50

Anyone have better prices & a more convenient
ordering location for these two items?

Thank you,
-Mark Hoagy
MH
2009-11-22 01:44:30 UTC
Permalink
I'm not to up on starting a fire without
matches and I'd like to be prepared in
wet conditions so I found this interesting --

Swedish FireSteel (00:56)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-bmu6HT-9A

Light My Fire Firesteel Scout $12
http://www.rei.com/product/737335

I'm certainly open to other ideas.
I have carried farmer match sticks in
a canister before over the decades but
you've probably realized I'm pretty
thrifty but I'd like something I can
depend upon. Your help it appreciated!

-Mark Hoagy

> I'm thinking of just order the two items from --
>
> Bowie Machete 12" $21
> http://www.amazon.com/Cold-Steel-Bowie-Machete-12/dp/B0017KS5DQ
>
> Pocket Chainsaw $29
> http://www.amazon.com/Pocket-Chainsaw-1102/dp/B000LNQA50
>
> Anyone have better prices & a more convenient
> ordering location for these two items?
>
> Thank you,
> -Mark Hoagy
mmeiser
2009-11-22 06:30:26 UTC
Permalink
Vasaline and cotton balls. I hear it's pretty much the most amazing fire
starter there is bought or made.

It'll even take a spark off a flint.

Burns for quite awhile too.

I've heard great things about both the firesteels you've mentioned. I'm
guessing you can't go wrong with either.

The problem is neither address the issue of tender.

I have an old magnesium chunk with a flint on one side. Scrape off enough
magnesium and you could light anything on fire.

Old school:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZ_LrBafzNY

-Mike

On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 8:44 PM, MH <hoagy-CSKG04oV0g/***@public.gmane.org> wrote:

> I'm not to up on starting a fire without
> matches and I'd like to be prepared in
> wet conditions so I found this interesting --
>
> Swedish FireSteel (00:56)
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-bmu6HT-9A
>
> Light My Fire Firesteel Scout $12
> http://www.rei.com/product/737335
>
> I'm certainly open to other ideas.
> I have carried farmer match sticks in
> a canister before over the decades but
> you've probably realized I'm pretty
> thrifty but I'd like something I can
> depend upon. Your help it appreciated!
>
> -Mark Hoagy
>
> I'm thinking of just order the two items from --
>>
>> Bowie Machete 12" $21
>> http://www.amazon.com/Cold-Steel-Bowie-Machete-12/dp/B0017KS5DQ
>>
>> Pocket Chainsaw $29
>> http://www.amazon.com/Pocket-Chainsaw-1102/dp/B000LNQA50
>>
>> Anyone have better prices & a more convenient
>> ordering location for these two items?
>>
>> Thank you,
>> -Mark Hoagy
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Touring mailing list
> Touring-***@public.gmane.org
> Browse and search the archives: http://search.bikelist.org
> Unsubscribe or list settings:
> http://www.phred.org/mailman/options/touring
>


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MH
2009-11-22 09:36:57 UTC
Permalink
Thank you Mike for the excellent tips & video.
I'm going to give it all a try. Found it --

Magnesium Firestarting Tool $6
http://www.rei.com/product/407152

-Mark Hoagy

mmeiser wrote:
> Vasaline and cotton balls. I hear it's pretty much the most amazing fire
> starter there is bought or made.
>
> It'll even take a spark off a flint.
>
> Burns for quite awhile too.
>
> I've heard great things about both the firesteels you've mentioned. I'm
> guessing you can't go wrong with either.
>
> The problem is neither address the issue of tender.
>
> I have an old magnesium chunk with a flint on one side. Scrape off enough
> magnesium and you could light anything on fire.
>
> Old school: [Starting a Fire with Magnesium Bar & Flint]
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZ_LrBafzNY
>
> -Mike

MH wrote:
>> I'm not to up on starting a fire without
>> matches and I'd like to be prepared in
>> wet conditions so I found this interesting --
>>
>> Swedish FireSteel (00:56)
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-bmu6HT-9A
>>
>> Light My Fire Firesteel Scout $12
>> http://www.rei.com/product/737335
MH
2009-11-22 12:03:13 UTC
Permalink
Making Fire With a Magnesium Fire Starter (2:30)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFaq-J-j5DQ
This young fellow shows the REI Magnesium
Firestarting Tool in action around home.

MH wrote:
> Magnesium Firestarting Tool $6
> http://www.rei.com/product/407152
troll
2009-11-23 02:55:39 UTC
Permalink
Hey mike

Almost always I carry a few cotton balls soaked with vasoline in a film
cannister. Works great---with a stricker. Used mostly as a back-up. One
cotton ball with some a bit of tender will get a ya fire. Tender----some
lint from a dryer which I also carry, an easy fire is at hand. Here again,
I'm a bit of overkill. I carry several containers of kitchen matches. I
also carry a super lighter----wind proof, water proof type. In my kit all
the above is carried in a red bag, along with some quick start fire
starters, burn even when wet storm matches, wetfire cubes, esbit squares,
waxed kitchen matches. In short, I carry what ever it takes to start a fire
and then 2 or 3 back-up methods. Fire is good. Life is good. coy,
burn the bridge, troll

Rainbows are easily found when riding a bike
----- Original Message -----
From: "mmeiser" <touring-at-bikelist.org-***@public.gmane.org>
To: "MH" <hoagy-CSKG04oV0g/***@public.gmane.org>
Cc: <touring-***@public.gmane.org>
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 12:30 AM
Subject: Re: Fire starter -was: chopping & splitting -was: Hatchet on tour ?


> Vasaline and cotton balls. I hear it's pretty much the most amazing fire
> starter there is bought or made.
>
> It'll even take a spark off a flint.
>
> Burns for quite awhile too.
>
> I've heard great things about both the firesteels you've mentioned. I'm
> guessing you can't go wrong with either.
>
> The problem is neither address the issue of tender.
>
> I have an old magnesium chunk with a flint on one side. Scrape off enough
> magnesium and you could light anything on fire.
>
> Old school:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZ_LrBafzNY
>
> -Mike
>
> On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 8:44 PM, MH <hoagy-CSKG04oV0g/***@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
>> I'm not to up on starting a fire without
>> matches and I'd like to be prepared in
>> wet conditions so I found this interesting --
>>
>> Swedish FireSteel (00:56)
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-bmu6HT-9A
>>
>> Light My Fire Firesteel Scout $12
>> http://www.rei.com/product/737335
>>
>> I'm certainly open to other ideas.
>> I have carried farmer match sticks in
>> a canister before over the decades but
>> you've probably realized I'm pretty
>> thrifty but I'd like something I can
>> depend upon. Your help it appreciated!
>>
>> -Mark Hoagy
>>
>> I'm thinking of just order the two items from --
>>>
>>> Bowie Machete 12" $21
>>> http://www.amazon.com/Cold-Steel-Bowie-Machete-12/dp/B0017KS5DQ
>>>
>>> Pocket Chainsaw $29
>>> http://www.amazon.com/Pocket-Chainsaw-1102/dp/B000LNQA50
>>>
>>> Anyone have better prices & a more convenient
>>> ordering location for these two items?
>>>
>>> Thank you,
>>> -Mark Hoagy
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Touring mailing list
>> Touring-***@public.gmane.org
>> Browse and search the archives: http://search.bikelist.org
>> Unsubscribe or list settings:
>> http://www.phred.org/mailman/options/touring
>>
>
>
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> Browse and search the archives: http://search.bikelist.org
> Unsubscribe or list settings:
> http://www.phred.org/mailman/options/touring
>
Jeff Caldwell
2009-11-24 18:45:21 UTC
Permalink
Does anyone here have experience with a fire piston?

Jeff

On Nov 22, 2009 9:55 PM, "troll" <troll-i5i2JEkbKeSsTnJN9+***@public.gmane.org> wrote:

Hey mike

Almost always I carry a few cotton balls soaked with vasoline in a film
cannister. Works great---with a stricker. Used mostly as a back-up. One
cotton ball with some a bit of tender will get a ya fire. Tender----some
lint from a dryer which I also carry, an easy fire is at hand. Here again,
I'm a bit of overkill. I carry several containers of kitchen matches. I
also carry a super lighter----wind proof, water proof type. In my kit all
the above is carried in a red bag, along with some quick start fire
starters, burn even when wet storm matches, wetfire cubes, esbit squares,
waxed kitchen matches. In short, I carry what ever it takes to start a fire
and then 2 or 3 back-up methods. Fire is good. Life is good. coy,
burn the bridge, troll

Rainbows are easily found when riding a bike
----- Original Message ----- From: "mmeiser" <touring-at-bikelist.org@
mmeiser.com>
To: "MH" <hoagy-CSKG04oV0g/***@public.gmane.org>
Cc: <touring-***@public.gmane.org>
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 12:30 AM
Subject: Re: Fire starter -was: chopping & splitting -was: Hatchet on tour ?

> Vasaline and cotton balls. I hear it's pretty much the most amazing fire >
starter there is bou...


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mmeiser
2009-11-25 00:06:56 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 9:55 PM, troll <troll-i5i2JEkbKeSsTnJN9+***@public.gmane.org> wrote:

> Hey mike
>
> Almost always I carry a few cotton balls soaked with vasoline in a film
> cannister. Works great---with a stricker. Used mostly as a back-up. One
> cotton ball with some a bit of tender will get a ya fire. Tender----some
> lint from a dryer which I also carry, an easy fire is at hand. Here again,
> I'm a bit of overkill. I carry several containers of kitchen matches. I
> also carry a super lighter----wind proof, water proof type. In my kit all
> the above is carried in a red bag, along with some quick start fire
> starters, burn even when wet storm matches, wetfire cubes, esbit squares,
> waxed kitchen matches. In short, I carry what ever it takes to start a fire
> and then 2 or 3 back-up methods. Fire is good. Life is good. coy,
> burn the bridge, troll
>

Thanks, good advice.

I may try the cotton ball and vasaline thing. Like I said in my very last
email, fire for me is non-essential for me, even in the winter. Having a
good sleeping bag (bivy and/or tarp) and a dry set of clothes is all that is
critical. (and water) Everything else I can do without for a night or even
two. Even food.

That said, I think I might try this vasaline and cottonball trick.

-Mike


> Rainbows are easily found when riding a bike
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "mmeiser" <touring-at-bikelist.org@
> mmeiser.com>
> To: "MH" <hoagy-CSKG04oV0g/***@public.gmane.org>
> Cc: <touring-***@public.gmane.org>
> Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 12:30 AM
> Subject: Re: Fire starter -was: chopping & splitting -was: Hatchet on tour
> ?
>
>
> Vasaline and cotton balls. I hear it's pretty much the most amazing fire
>> starter there is bought or made.
>>
>> It'll even take a spark off a flint.
>>
>> Burns for quite awhile too.
>>
>> I've heard great things about both the firesteels you've mentioned. I'm
>> guessing you can't go wrong with either.
>>
>> The problem is neither address the issue of tender.
>>
>> I have an old magnesium chunk with a flint on one side. Scrape off enough
>> magnesium and you could light anything on fire.
>>
>> Old school:
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZ_LrBafzNY
>>
>> -Mike
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 8:44 PM, MH <hoagy-CSKG04oV0g/***@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>>
>> I'm not to up on starting a fire without
>>> matches and I'd like to be prepared in
>>> wet conditions so I found this interesting --
>>>
>>> Swedish FireSteel (00:56)
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-bmu6HT-9A
>>>
>>> Light My Fire Firesteel Scout $12
>>> http://www.rei.com/product/737335
>>>
>>> I'm certainly open to other ideas.
>>> I have carried farmer match sticks in
>>> a canister before over the decades but
>>> you've probably realized I'm pretty
>>> thrifty but I'd like something I can
>>> depend upon. Your help it appreciated!
>>>
>>> -Mark Hoagy
>>>
>>> I'm thinking of just order the two items from --
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bowie Machete 12" $21
>>>> http://www.amazon.com/Cold-Steel-Bowie-Machete-12/dp/B0017KS5DQ
>>>>
>>>> Pocket Chainsaw $29
>>>> http://www.amazon.com/Pocket-Chainsaw-1102/dp/B000LNQA50
>>>>
>>>> Anyone have better prices & a more convenient
>>>> ordering location for these two items?
>>>>
>>>> Thank you,
>>>> -Mark Hoagy
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Touring mailing list
>>> Touring-***@public.gmane.org
>>> Browse and search the archives: http://search.bikelist.org
>>> Unsubscribe or list settings:
>>> http://www.phred.org/mailman/options/touring
>>>
>>>
>>
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>> Touring mailing list
>> Touring-***@public.gmane.org
>> Browse and search the archives: http://search.bikelist.org
>> Unsubscribe or list settings:
>> http://www.phred.org/mailman/options/touring
>>
>>
>


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mmeiser
2009-11-23 05:00:03 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 10:55 AM, chuck davis <dang.chuck-***@public.gmane.org> wrote:

>
> The problem is neither address the issue of tender.
>
>
> Couldn't resist!
>

Yeah, I used the wrong term. :)

I guess I didn't know what to call "stuff that will take a spark".

The magnseium takes the spark with the magnseium firestarter, thus you only
need tender.

With the swedish firestarter types you appear to need something that takes a
spark before you can even jump to tender.

BTW, Mark, I assume there's a reason why the old Magnesium fire starters
aren't as popular. I don't know if it's a weight thing, wether the newer
styles give off more spark, or perhaps simply the new ones are quicker to
use becuase you don't need to scrape off a bunch of magnesium.

They are extremely cheap though, so if you want to do a comparison and let
us all know that would be pretty cool. :)

BTW, where I'm at. I just use a lighter. I actually do sometimes pack two
depending on how light I'm going. One in the cook kit and one nice and
accessible in the outer pocket of my pannier next to my multi-tool knife and
tiny camp headlamp. I've ditched matches and never really done more then
experiment with the flint. If I do carry two lighters this is more for
convience then reliability. Though lighters are not completely reliable I
must say with my type of spring, summer, fall touring fire is a
non-essential. In the rarity a lighter fails I can do witout hot food for an
evening and pick up a new one the next time I pass a store or gas station.
I guess fire is a little more important in the winter, but as long as I
have spare set of dry clothes and a good sleeping bag it's still not
essenential.

Oh, on rare occasions I do carry a bit of fire stick. I usually use it more
like a match and then blow it out for reuse again later. If I do build a
fire as opposed to just using my stove I usually don't have a problem
finding some sort of tender, even if it's just scrap packaging from dinner.

Though I love touring in more remote places, remote is a relative term. I am
not after all hiking in backcountry. I don't need to purify water, don't
even bother to carry TP most of the time. Anywhere I go in the midwest I'm
never more then an hours ride from the nearest gas station or store. It's
both a blessing and a curse, but it means I can afford to go ultra-light.
And by ultralight I mean using a Fosters can as a pot, bivying, sleeping
under a tarp, carrying a 3oz wood stove and a 15oz sleeping bag (in the
summer).

I can push that envelope of durability right to the brink of failure in most
cases. Although I'm not quite ready to use a styrafoam cup as a bowl like
some of those crazy ultralight backpacking people. :)

Pretty much everyting is fail-able, particularly in summer touring, except
for the bike itself, particularly the weelsets and secondarily the drive
train. Not a place to go light for me.

-Mike


>
> Cash, Czech or Plastic????
> On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 12:30 AM, mmeiser <touring-at-bikelist.org@
> mmeiser.com> wrote:
>
>> Vasaline and cotton balls. I hear it's pretty much the most amazing fire
>> starter there is bought or made.
>>
>> It'll even take a spark off a flint.
>>
>> Burns for quite awhile too.
>>
>> I've heard great things about both the firesteels you've mentioned. I'm
>> guessing you can't go wrong with either.
>>
>> The problem is neither address the issue of tender.
>>
>> I have an old magnesium chunk with a flint on one side. Scrape off enough
>> magnesium and you could light anything on fire.
>>
>> Old school:
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZ_LrBafzNY
>>
>> -Mike
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 8:44 PM, MH <hoagy-CSKG04oV0g/***@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>>
>> > I'm not to up on starting a fire without
>> > matches and I'd like to be prepared in
>> > wet conditions so I found this interesting --
>> >
>> > Swedish FireSteel (00:56)
>> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-bmu6HT-9A
>> >
>> > Light My Fire Firesteel Scout $12
>> > http://www.rei.com/product/737335
>> >
>> > I'm certainly open to other ideas.
>> > I have carried farmer match sticks in
>> > a canister before over the decades but
>> > you've probably realized I'm pretty
>> > thrifty but I'd like something I can
>> > depend upon. Your help it appreciated!
>> >
>> > -Mark Hoagy
>> >
>> > I'm thinking of just order the two items from --
>> >>
>> >> Bowie Machete 12" $21
>> >> http://www.amazon.com/Cold-Steel-Bowie-Machete-12/dp/B0017KS5DQ
>> >>
>> >> Pocket Chainsaw $29
>> >> http://www.amazon.com/Pocket-Chainsaw-1102/dp/B000LNQA50
>> >>
>> >> Anyone have better prices & a more convenient
>> >> ordering location for these two items?
>> >>
>> >> Thank you,
>> >> -Mark Hoagy
>> >>
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Touring mailing list
>> > Touring-***@public.gmane.org
>> > Browse and search the archives: http://search.bikelist.org
>> > Unsubscribe or list settings:
>> > http://www.phred.org/mailman/options/touring
>> >
>>
>>
>> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
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>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Touring mailing list
>> Touring-***@public.gmane.org
>> Browse and search the archives: http://search.bikelist.org
>> Unsubscribe or list settings:
>> http://www.phred.org/mailman/options/touring
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Chuck Davis
> OK Velo Sales (Okvelo-***@public.gmane.org)
> Tulsa, OK
>
> When ya really bored and/or otherwise want to understand just how cool a
> dude I yam, czech the deranged drivel and nonsense below:
>
> http://chucksbikes.blogspot.com/
> http://okvelo.blogspot.com/
> http://allweighscranky.blogspot.com/
>


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MH
2009-11-23 15:43:13 UTC
Permalink
Hi Mike,

I'm not to sure why I'd want a FireSteel lighter.
A flint is all I really need and the REI magnesium
firestarter comes equipped with one & affordable.
It seems to me its worth the price for emergency
woodfire starting thanks to the magnesium getting
the job done although I've got to try some shavings
from a piece of fat wood talked about in this videos i.e,

Fatwood fire (6:23)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tqgfb-AOWdg
This one is regarding the Walmart variety.

Maya/Fatwood (3:18)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kn1-_Xa6b8
This ones about finding deadwood fatwood
and starting a fire with FireSteel.

I suppose I'm just being redundant with both
magnesium & fatwood but I think the experience
would be fun to tryout if I can remember too.

I'd love to give a review but youtube has so much to offer,
-Mark Hoagy

mmeiser wrote:
> The magnseium takes the spark with the magnseium firestarter, thus you only
> need tender.
>
> With the swedish firestarter types you appear to need something that takes a
> spark before you can even jump to tender.
>
> BTW, Mark, I assume there's a reason why the old Magnesium fire starters
> aren't as popular. I don't know if it's a weight thing, wether the newer
> styles give off more spark, or perhaps simply the new ones are quicker to
> use becuase you don't need to scrape off a bunch of magnesium.
>
> They are extremely cheap though, so if you want to do a comparison and let
> us all know that would be pretty cool. :)

MH wrote:
>>>> I'm not to up on starting a fire without
>>>> matches and I'd like to be prepared in
>>>> wet conditions so I found this interesting --
>>>>
>>>> Swedish FireSteel (00:56)
>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-bmu6HT-9A
>>>>
>>>> Light My Fire Firesteel Scout $12
>>>> http://www.rei.com/product/737335
JOHN BERRY
2009-11-23 16:14:56 UTC
Permalink
>A flint is all I really need and the REI magnesium=0A>firestarter comes eq
uipped with one & affordable.=0A>It seems to me its worth the price for eme
rgency=0A>woodfire starting thanks to the magnesium getting=0A=0ARecommenda
tions by Alaskan outdoor websites are to carry redundant means of starting
a fire, since the consequnces of not being able to can be so dire.   
I carried a lighter, an REI magnesium starter and some wax/paraffin balls f
or kindling.  Fortunately, I never needed to start a fire in an emergen
cy.  I also looked at a friction device for fire starting (REI?), and am
glad I didn't buy one, because the one occasion where I came close to havin
g to camp out at high altitude in pouring rain, my hands were so frozen t
hat I would not have been able to start a fire that way (nor would I have b
een able to use the lighter).=0A=0AJohn=0A
MH
2009-11-23 18:39:00 UTC
Permalink
JOHN BERRY wrote:
>> A flint is all I really need and the REI magnesium
>> firestarter comes equipped with one & affordable.
>> It seems to me its worth the price for emergency
>> woodfire starting thanks to the magnesium getting
>
> Recommendations by Alaskan outdoor websites are to carry redundant means of starting a fire, since the consequnces of not being able to can be so dire. I carried a lighter, an REI magnesium starter and some wax/paraffin balls for kindling. Fortunately, I never needed to start a fire in an emergency. I also looked at a friction device for fire starting (REI?), and am glad I didn't buy one, because the one occasion where I came close to having to camp out at high altitude in pouring rain, my hands were so frozen that I would not have been able to start a fire that way (nor would I have been able to use the lighter).
>
> John


John,

I'm very interested in knowing what would have been
the answer if you could have been more prepared?

I guess I'd put my hands in the armpits or crotch in
hopes of thawing them enough to get back circulation.
I really don't know what to do. Maybe rub them?

Thank you John for the tips & advice,
-Mark Hoagy
MH
2009-11-23 19:22:18 UTC
Permalink
Maybe one should bring along something
like those to warm hands just in case.

-Mark Hoagy

Grabber Hand Warmers - Package of 6 $6
http://www.rei.com/product/777596

EZ Heat Reusable Hand Warmer $5
http://www.rei.com/product/608751
This reusable heat packet can keep
hands and feet warm for up to one hour.

EZ Heat reusable hand warmer review (3:38)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjaN39Cv1eE




MH wrote:
> John,
>
> I'm very interested in knowing what would have been
> the answer if you could have been more prepared?
>
> I guess I'd put my hands in the armpits or crotch in
> hopes of thawing them enough to get back circulation.
> I really don't know what to do. Maybe rub them?
>
> Thank you John for the tips & advice,
> -Mark Hoagy
Rob
2009-11-23 22:57:21 UTC
Permalink
With all this talk of how to start fires....how do people extinguish
them..???
One major drawback with having a fire is having to make sure its
completely out before moving on.
Burying a fire isn't a good option as if the wind picks up the fire can
be uncovered and flare up again
unless its buried "deep" and that's too much effort for most of us to
consider.
That leaves water - not enough of that around, and its too heavy to carry.
Or some form of Chemical extinguishing agent.

I am wondering how people put out their fires.

Cheers
Rob

Australia - a Damm big country by bike...!!
>
MH
2009-11-23 23:06:05 UTC
Permalink
I pee on it and step on it and hang around
to watch it go out. I haven't built a camp
fire in decades but I have built small
manageable fires in the sandbars along
the stream & riverbanks in my area.
I use the cook pot when done scrubbing up
although a water bottle could be used.

-Mark Hoagy

Rob wrote:
> With all this talk of how to start fires....how do people extinguish
> them..???
> One major drawback with having a fire is having to make sure its
> completely out before moving on.
> Burying a fire isn't a good option as if the wind picks up the fire can
> be uncovered and flare up again
> unless its buried "deep" and that's too much effort for most of us to
> consider.
> That leaves water - not enough of that around, and its too heavy to carry.
> Or some form of Chemical extinguishing agent.
>
> I am wondering how people put out their fires.
>
> Cheers
> Rob
>
> Australia - a Damm big country by bike...!!
JOHN BERRY
2009-11-23 23:09:29 UTC
Permalink
Rob:=0A=0AI rarely use a fire, and when I do, it's usually in an official c
ampground near water.  But, I don't think we here have to worry quite as
much as you do.  We don't have a lot of the type of wood that smoulders
forever.=0A=0AI have to say that one of the most beautiful, but also scary
sights, is traveling at night through parts of Australia (most of my exper
ience in in N. Qld,) that have recently (last week? last month?) burned a
nd seeing all the glowing tree stumps off in the dark.   I've never see
n that in the USA, nor in Africa, where they burn off the underbrush every
year.=0A=0AJohn=0A John Berry Associates=0AGeology & Remote Sensing=0A500
0 Beverly Hills Dr.=0AAUSTIN, TX 78731=0A+1-512-921-1472 (cell)=0Ajlbassoc@
flash.net =0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Rob <***@oze
mail.com.au>=0ATo: touring-***@public.gmane.org=0ASent: Mon, November 23, 2009 4:57
:21 PM=0ASubject: Re: Fire starter -was: chopping & splitting -was: Hatchet
on tour ?=0A=0AWith all this talk of how to start fires....how do people e
xtinguish them..???=0AOne major drawback with having a fire is having to ma
ke sure its completely out before moving on.=0ABurying a fire isn't a good
option as if the wind picks up the fire can be uncovered and flare up again
=0Aunless its buried "deep" and that's too much effort for most of us to co
nsider.=0AThat leaves water - not enough of that around, and its too heavy
to carry.=0AOr some form of Chemical extinguishing agent.=0A=0AI am wonderi
ng how people put out their fires.=0A=0ACheers=0ARob=0A=0AAustralia - a Dam
m big country by bike...!!=0A> =0A_________________________________________
______=0ATouring mailing list=0ATouring-***@public.gmane.org=0ABrowse and search th
e archives: http://search.bikelist.org=0AUnsubscribe or list settings:=0Aht
tp://www.phred.org/mailman/options/touring=0A
JOHN BERRY
2009-11-24 00:05:12 UTC
Permalink
Mark:

Thanks for the encouragement. I'm going to share the story now, but I have
problems with control characters showing when I post to the list. I'll try
to minimize them by separating the text as well as I can. I'll recap the b
ackground conversation to clue the group in.
______________________________________
> I wish you would have shared this story with all the Phreds - MH
______________________________________
>> the one occasion where I came close to having to camp out at high altitu
de in pouring rain, my hands were so frozen that I would not have been able
to start a fire that way (by a friction device, nor would I have been able
to use the lighter). ---JB
_____________________________________
> I'm very interested in knowing what would have been the answer if you cou
ld have been more prepared?
>
> I guess I'd put my hands in the armpits or crotch in hopes of thawing the
m enough to get back circulation.

> I really don't know what to do. Maybe rub them?
>
> Thank you John for the tips & advice,
> -Mark Hoagy

____________________________________________

> I don't know what I would have done. I may have said this before on the
list, but the occasion was on the Top of the World Highway from Chicken, Al
aska to Dawson City, Yukon, and I was caught in what firefighters told me t
he next day was the worst storm in at least 8 years. It came up very sudde
nly on what had been a pleasant, sunny day.
>
> The problem was that this is tundra, and there was a LOT of lightning, an
d the road follows the ridge crests. So no shelter and nowhere to stop. Al
so, almost no fuel for a fire, even if it weren't all soaked. It was also a
dirt road that summer (2008), the blacktop having been scraped off in orde
r to rebuild the road. So I was not only frozen cold and wet through, but
also one big mud lump from head to toe. Night (such as there is there) was
also approaching, and I had made the mistake of not realizing that the bor
der was closed not at 6.00 pm Alaska time, but at 6.00 pm Yukon time (there
fore 5.00pm Alaska time), which meant that by the time the storm hit, the l
ast west-bound automobile travelers for that night had already passed me. T
heoretically there could have been some east-bounders passing me, but they
must have all found a place to stop for the night or have turned back.
>
> When the storm first came I stopped and tried to shelter myself and the b
ike beneath my tarp, but with no sticks to support it and no pegs to pin th
e corners to the ground, and a strong wind blowing I was just getting wette
r and wetter for no gain. Nor could I find anything to anchor my bungees t
o, so the tarp would alternately fill with water and flap in the wind. Fee
ling much more exposed to a lightning flash than I do on the bike (reasonin
g that, on the bike, my small area of contact with the ground and the rubbe
r tires, even though wet, provide some "discouragement" to a flash) I got u
nderway again. I suppose I could have got my tent pegs out to hold down
the tarp, but they were rolled inside the flysheet and the tent inside its
bag, so then I would have had an unrolled tent exposed to the wind and gett
ing wet and useless.
>
> I must admit that I was inadequately clothed, having no gloves and only a
light windcheater, but the storm came on so quickly and the rain was so he
avy that I would have been wet-through anyway by the time I had got more la
yers of clothing on. By the time I got to Dawson I was chilled to the co
re, and took hours to warm up. I couldn't get my hands warm by rubbing the
m or hugging them in my armpits by then (I tried), and I'm not sure I would
have wanted icy cold wet hands directly against my already cold body anywh
ere else.
>
> So no, I can't help with any suggestions as to what would have been adequ
ate preparation or a better course of action on that occasion: I have chal
ked it down as a close call, and a freak occurrence, but have not learned a
ny deep abiding lesson as to how to avoid a repeat. Carrying a complete su
it of oilskins I think would be impractical. All in a day's ride, as they
say.
>
> John
mmeiser
2009-11-25 00:39:40 UTC
Permalink
Wow, previously hadn't known about fatwood.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatwood

Aparently it's high pitch laden parts of pine, particularly concentrated
around pine knots in rotten logs. It usually will last for a decade or more
after the log rots a way because it's rot resistent.

To use it you scrap it into a dust and it will take a spark.

Common in all pines but best in long leaf pine.

Interestingly I think I was burning some of this the other night.

I broke apart a fairly rotten stump and got some good burn chunks from the
outer layer and these odd shaped limb stumps that started 6 inches inside
the tree. I wasn't expecting them to burn well but they were very hot.
This explains a lot.

Learn somethng new everyday.

BTW, the guy in the second demo was using a Sami / Leukuknife. He also did
a review of it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRl3-dza4VQ

His is a little big with a 9" blade, but it's fairly thin and hence light.

There's also a gentleman with a 7.5" Leuku that has about five videos
showing chopping, whittling and splitting with it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPscdSZq5a0

-Mike

On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 10:43 AM, MH <hoagy-CSKG04oV0g/***@public.gmane.org> wrote:

> Hi Mike,
>
> I'm not to sure why I'd want a FireSteel lighter.
> A flint is all I really need and the REI magnesium
> firestarter comes equipped with one & affordable.
> It seems to me its worth the price for emergency
> woodfire starting thanks to the magnesium getting
> the job done although I've got to try some shavings
> from a piece of fat wood talked about in this videos i.e,
>
> Fatwood fire (6:23)
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tqgfb-AOWdg
> This one is regarding the Walmart variety.
>
> Maya/Fatwood (3:18)
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kn1-_Xa6b8
> This ones about finding deadwood fatwood
> and starting a fire with FireSteel.
>
> I suppose I'm just being redundant with both
> magnesium & fatwood but I think the experience
> would be fun to tryout if I can remember too.
>
> I'd love to give a review but youtube has so much to offer,
> -Mark Hoagy
>
>
> mmeiser wrote:
>
>> The magnseium takes the spark with the magnseium firestarter, thus you
>> only
>> need tender.
>>
>> With the swedish firestarter types you appear to need something that takes
>> a
>> spark before you can even jump to tender.
>>
>> BTW, Mark, I assume there's a reason why the old Magnesium fire starters
>> aren't as popular. I don't know if it's a weight thing, wether the newer
>> styles give off more spark, or perhaps simply the new ones are quicker to
>> use becuase you don't need to scrape off a bunch of magnesium.
>>
>> They are extremely cheap though, so if you want to do a comparison and let
>> us all know that would be pretty cool. :)
>>
>
> MH wrote:
>
>> I'm not to up on starting a fire without
>>>>> matches and I'd like to be prepared in
>>>>> wet conditions so I found this interesting --
>>>>>
>>>>> Swedish FireSteel (00:56)
>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-bmu6HT-9A
>>>>>
>>>>> Light My Fire Firesteel Scout $12
>>>>> http://www.rei.com/product/737335
>>>>>
>>>>
>
>
>


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MH
2009-11-25 01:28:27 UTC
Permalink
What works best for sharpening camp, pocket & home knives?

I'm looking at EZE-Lap Oval Diamond Sharpeners

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDS_7AdcsAc

mmeiser wrote:
> Wow, previously hadn't known about fatwood.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatwood
>
> Aparently it's high pitch laden parts of pine, particularly concentrated
> around pine knots in rotten logs. It usually will last for a decade or more
> after the log rots a way because it's rot resistent.
>
> To use it you scrap it into a dust and it will take a spark.
>
> Common in all pines but best in long leaf pine.
>
> Interestingly I think I was burning some of this the other night.
>
> I broke apart a fairly rotten stump and got some good burn chunks from the
> outer layer and these odd shaped limb stumps that started 6 inches inside
> the tree. I wasn't expecting them to burn well but they were very hot.
> This explains a lot.
>
> Learn somethng new everyday.
>
> BTW, the guy in the second demo was using a Sami / Leukuknife. He also did
> a review of it.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRl3-dza4VQ
>
> His is a little big with a 9" blade, but it's fairly thin and hence light.
>
> There's also a gentleman with a 7.5" Leuku that has about five videos
> showing chopping, whittling and splitting with it.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPscdSZq5a0
>
> -Mike
>
mmeiser
2009-11-27 08:04:16 UTC
Permalink
I'm no sharpening guru. :)

Honestly thoug, I've spening all my spare time figuring out how to build the
perfect ultralight wood stove and which tools are the lightest and best for
preparing wood for it. Haven't gotten to the maintaining the edge bit.

But I am listening if anyone else has any advice.

-Mike



On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 8:28 PM, MH <hoagy-CSKG04oV0g/***@public.gmane.org> wrote:

> What works best for sharpening camp, pocket & home knives?
>
> I'm looking at EZE-Lap Oval Diamond Sharpeners
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDS_7AdcsAc
>
> mmeiser wrote:
>
>> Wow, previously hadn't known about fatwood.
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatwood
>>
>> Aparently it's high pitch laden parts of pine, particularly concentrated
>> around pine knots in rotten logs. It usually will last for a decade or
>> more
>> after the log rots a way because it's rot resistent.
>>
>> To use it you scrap it into a dust and it will take a spark.
>>
>> Common in all pines but best in long leaf pine.
>>
>> Interestingly I think I was burning some of this the other night.
>>
>> I broke apart a fairly rotten stump and got some good burn chunks from the
>> outer layer and these odd shaped limb stumps that started 6 inches inside
>> the tree. I wasn't expecting them to burn well but they were very hot.
>> This explains a lot.
>>
>> Learn somethng new everyday.
>>
>> BTW, the guy in the second demo was using a Sami / Leukuknife. He also
>> did
>> a review of it.
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRl3-dza4VQ
>>
>> His is a little big with a 9" blade, but it's fairly thin and hence light.
>>
>> There's also a gentleman with a 7.5" Leuku that has about five videos
>> showing chopping, whittling and splitting with it.
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPscdSZq5a0
>>
>> -Mike
>>
>>


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MH
2009-11-27 12:36:29 UTC
Permalink
I didn't go all out looking but heres
what I found on sharping stones to get
things started. -Mark Hoagy

How To Sharpen a Knife With a Stone
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRzQtagagi8
Japanese Water Stone

sharpening a knife
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ECuGuKblCE

Knife Sharpening : Knife Sharpening: Common Mistakes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYnFL3zCYUY

$14 Smith's SK2 2-Stone Sharpening Kit
http://www.amazon.com/Smiths-SK2-2-Stone-Sharpening-Kit/dp/B000B5JXU2

$17 Smith's DCS4 4" FINE & COARSE Diamond Combo Sharpening Stones
http://www.amazon.com/Smiths-DCS4-COARSE-Diamond-Sharpening/dp/B00009YV6L
5 stars from 4 people

$23 Smith's TRI-6 Arkansas TRI-HONE Sharpening Stones System
http://www.amazon.com/TRI-6-Arkansas-TRI-HONE-Sharpening-System/dp/B00062BIT4

$30 Gatco 3 Stone Kit
http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___29221

$40 Smith's Diamond 3-Stone Sharpening Kit
http://www.rei.com/product/748315

$120 Norton Waterstone Starter Kit
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000XK0FMU/ref=asc_df_B000XK0FMU972048
MH
2009-11-27 14:30:51 UTC
Permalink
Here's a bit more,

$40-50 Smith's DFPK Diamond Precision Knife Sharpening Kit
http://www.amazon.com/Smiths-DFPK-Diamond-Precision-Sharpening/dp/B000O8OTKA
http://smithsedge.com/products/product.asp?id=32&cid=4


These videos may be of interest but
I've never done anything like it although there
was a show on PBS about this years ago --

Knife Sharpening : How to Sharpen a Knife With a File
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJQSvY9SoRQ
I may use this initially on a old knife.

Quick and Easy Tool Sharpening
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yvJavgK6mo
He sharpens chisels using a grinder & various
sandpaper grits which could be used on knives.

Home Improvement & Maintenance :
How to Sharpen a Knife With Sand Paper
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PVayiwbtns

All-in-one travel strop knife sharpening system
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkuF1dljmjE
Homemade sandpaper sharpening kit.

Leather Hand Strops
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=32999&cat=1,43072

I guess I could volunteer if I can find
a hardwood board & various grit sandpaper
and a old belt but I don't have any
polishing compound for stropping,
-Mark Hoagy
MH
2009-11-27 15:49:29 UTC
Permalink
MH wrote:
> Here's a bit more,
>
> $40-50 Smith's DFPK Diamond Precision Knife Sharpening Kit
> http://www.amazon.com/Smiths-DFPK-Diamond-Precision-Sharpening/dp/B000O8OTKA
>
> http://smithsedge.com/products/product.asp?id=32&cid=4


Sharpening Tools/Kits : Part 4 - Smith's Kit
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q91Rsx6FDZI
The Smith system is shown but
suggests the Lansky system.

Lansky Knife Sharpening System
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KW64B0MZVOE
Promotional advertisement.

Lansky Knife Sharpener-Lansky knife sharpening kits;
Basic, Standard, Universal, and Deluxe
http://www.knivesplus.com/lansky-knife-sharpening-kits.html
MH
2009-11-25 02:00:25 UTC
Permalink
I've found conifer trees to be a nice campfire
wood with their snap, crackle, pop & aroma.
Deciduous soft & hard woods are nice too.

Some conifer trees are higher rated then
hardwood in BTU/pound. They really warm
things up.

mmeiser wrote:
> Wow, previously hadn't known about fatwood.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatwood
>
> Aparently it's high pitch laden parts of pine, particularly concentrated
> around pine knots in rotten logs. It usually will last for a decade or more
> after the log rots a way because it's rot resistent.
>
> To use it you scrap it into a dust and it will take a spark.
>
> Common in all pines but best in long leaf pine.
>
> Interestingly I think I was burning some of this the other night.
>
> I broke apart a fairly rotten stump and got some good burn chunks from the
> outer layer and these odd shaped limb stumps that started 6 inches inside
> the tree. I wasn't expecting them to burn well but they were very hot.
> This explains a lot.
mmeiser
2009-11-25 09:25:58 UTC
Permalink
I think we can agree on the pine category in general.

Favorite to smell

Favorite to burn.

Pine cones make exellent fire starters and fuel.

Favorite to camp under or near, especially in winter.

May be in general my all around favorite tree.


Shag bark hickory is another favorite.

A single mature tree can provide way more then enough bark, nut and small
branches to power my wood gas stove all night without any heavy wood
processing necissary at all. The bark burns hot, long and smells so good.
It even pops like pine and lights almost as well as pine. Definitely has
some sort of resin in it.


Wish I could find more birch bark around here. Similar bark lighting
properties, easy to break down, though I'm not sure it burns as well. May be
to soft.

-Mike



On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 9:00 PM, MH <hoagy-CSKG04oV0g/***@public.gmane.org> wrote:

> I've found conifer trees to be a nice campfire
> wood with their snap, crackle, pop & aroma.
> Deciduous soft & hard woods are nice too.
>
> Some conifer trees are higher rated then
> hardwood in BTU/pound. They really warm
> things up.
>
>
> mmeiser wrote:
>
>> Wow, previously hadn't known about fatwood.
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatwood
>>
>> Aparently it's high pitch laden parts of pine, particularly concentrated
>> around pine knots in rotten logs. It usually will last for a decade or
>> more
>> after the log rots a way because it's rot resistent.
>>
>> To use it you scrap it into a dust and it will take a spark.
>>
>> Common in all pines but best in long leaf pine.
>>
>> Interestingly I think I was burning some of this the other night.
>>
>> I broke apart a fairly rotten stump and got some good burn chunks from the
>> outer layer and these odd shaped limb stumps that started 6 inches inside
>> the tree. I wasn't expecting them to burn well but they were very hot.
>> This explains a lot.
>>
>


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mmeiser
2009-11-22 18:29:48 UTC
Permalink
Been checking out some youtube videos. That pocket chainsaw looks pretty
promising, though I didn't see anyone attack anything but the softest wood
with it.

http://www.amazon.com/Pocket-Chainsaw-1102/dp/B000LNQA50

It seemed fast and efficient, but does seem to take a tremendous amount of
energy (intensity) even next to chopping. I could see generating a
tremendous amount of body of heat and sweating is not something I want to be
doing after I get off the bike at the end of a long day. I want to stay cool
and minimize any moisture build up on my clothes in the evening since they
will not dry overnight in the winter.

You can probably improvise a bow saw with a green limb pretty darn quick. A
bow saw would probably cut the energy use of sawing in half, maybe even
less.

It's also packs up compact and only weighs 9.6oz.

I'd not had much luck with the cord type saws. They didn't cut aggressively
enough and tended to bind in the wood. But I can definitely see giving one
of these a try in the future.

As for the Cold Steel 12" Bowie Machete. Definitely a good tool. Defintiely
lighter and more versatile then an axe, but to big for me. I'm going to
continue keeping an eye out for something smaller / lighter and peraps
something more choping and splitting specific.

I did find this btw.

The Kabar Becker Tac Tool:

https://www.kabar.com/product/productDetail.do?productNumber=BK3

alt url: http://tinyurl.com/ye8mh95

Pros: It's the right form, blade shape and wedge width. Also a good size at
7.X" blade, 12.5" overall length. Specifically made for chopping and
splitting.

Cons: Very expensive at $140 and a bit heavy at 18.6 oz, the rope cutting
notch may get in the way when using it with an improvised baton and I'm not
sue it'd work to well for other "knife" duties because the blade is so flat,
angular and has saw teeth down near the handle.

It's a start.

Ultimately though a small Sami knife is still the best thing I've seen.
Narrow in the middle of the blade. Weight out toward the tip of the blade
for chopping and fairly light becuase their thin... though this thinness may
make them split a little slower... not sure myself.

I don't think i'm going to find the perfect camp knife anytime soon, but I'm
in no hurry.

Ineterestingly I have a Kersaw lock blade knife.. a $100+ knife I found
dropped in a Best Buy store entrance. Never located the owner. I bet they
were sad though. The thing is in perfect condition, brand new. I figured I'd
never use it, planned on selling it or finding it an appreciative home but
it might be big enough to split some small wood for my wood gas stove to
make it burn faster and cleaner.

On a side note, their are just to many knives out there.

-Mike

On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 7:10 PM, MH <hoagy-CSKG04oV0g/***@public.gmane.org> wrote:

> I'm not
>> concerned about defensive maneuvers so I'm pretty sure
>> the [original] blade ground angle will do just fine splitting wood.
>>
>> The length should be great for chopping wood. Maybe
>> January I can order a Cold Steel 12" Bowie Machete &
>> the Unbelievable Saw by Supreme Products. I'll be happy
>> to give a report on them.
>>
>
> I'm thinking of just order the two items from --
>
> Bowie Machete 12" $21
> http://www.amazon.com/Cold-Steel-Bowie-Machete-12/dp/B0017KS5DQ
>
> Pocket Chainsaw $29
> http://www.amazon.com/Pocket-Chainsaw-1102/dp/B000LNQA50
>
> Anyone have better prices & a more convenient
> ordering location for these two items?
>
> Thank you,
> -Mark Hoagy
>
> _______________________________________________
> Touring mailing list
> Touring-***@public.gmane.org
> Browse and search the archives: http://search.bikelist.org
> Unsubscribe or list settings:
> http://www.phred.org/mailman/options/touring
>


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MH
2009-11-22 21:15:54 UTC
Permalink
Hi Mike, I added a few short comments below
and might of saved you some money so read on.
-Mark Hoagy

mmeiser wrote:
> Been checking out some youtube videos. That pocket chainsaw looks pretty
> promising, though I didn't see anyone attack anything but the softest wood
> with it.

hand powered chain saw (2:05)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjC_gPnxe5E
He's cutting oak a hardwood with
what looks like a Pocket Chainsaw.

> It seemed fast and efficient, but does seem to take a tremendous amount of
> energy (intensity) even next to chopping. I could see generating a
> tremendous amount of body of heat and sweating is not something I want to be
> doing after I get off the bike at the end of a long day. I want to stay cool
> and minimize any moisture build up on my clothes in the evening since they
> will not dry overnight in the winter.
>
> You can probably improvise a bow saw with a green limb pretty darn quick. A
> bow saw would probably cut the energy use of sawing in half, maybe even
> less.
>
> It's also packs up compact and only weighs 9.6oz.

> The Kabar Becker Tac Tool:
>
> https://www.kabar.com/product/productDetail.do?productNumber=BK3
>
> alt url: http://tinyurl.com/ye8mh95
>
> Pros: It's the right form, blade shape and wedge width. Also a good size at
> 7.X" blade, 12.5" overall length. Specifically made for chopping and
> splitting.
>
> Cons: Very expensive at $140 and a bit heavy at 18.6 oz, the rope cutting
> notch may get in the way when using it with an improvised baton and I'm not
> sue it'd work to well for other "knife" duties because the blade is so flat,
> angular and has saw teeth down near the handle.

Ka-Bar Becker BK3 Tac Tool Fixed Blade Knife $76 with free shipping
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001IPILMA/ref=asc_df_B001IPILMA968341


MH wrote:
>> I'm thinking of just order the two items from --
>>
>> Bowie Machete 12" $21
>> http://www.amazon.com/Cold-Steel-Bowie-Machete-12/dp/B0017KS5DQ
>>
>> Pocket Chainsaw $29
>> http://www.amazon.com/Pocket-Chainsaw-1102/dp/B000LNQA50

These two items where priced in with free shipping
but thats not the case now. I don't know what happened.

-Mark Hoagy
MH
2009-11-22 21:40:26 UTC
Permalink
>> Been checking out some youtube videos. That pocket chainsaw looks pretty
>> promising, though I didn't see anyone attack anything but the softest
>> wood with it.

> hand powered chain saw (2:05)
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjC_gPnxe5E
> He's cutting oak a hardwood with
> what looks like a Pocket Chainsaw.

goinggear.com - Pocket Chainsaw (1:25)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XKfI0DLu_U
Cutting some oak hardwood it looks like.
He does say its hardwood.

I spent 17 years cutting wood to heat my
trailer home with a chainsaw and this
pocket chainsaw or http://unbelievablesaw.com
($21.95 with free shipping in the USA & more for
others) impresses me enough to buy one. I don't
know how much I'll use it since the state parks
in my Wisconsin area are all picked over from
other campers so I use my gasoline stove then.

-Mark Hoagy
Jim Foreman
2009-11-22 21:58:53 UTC
Permalink
I've been reading this almost endless talk about hatchets, chainsaws,
knives and campfires, but a big, roaring fire has never come to mind while
camping, especially on a bicycle. The only camping thing involving an axe
that I can recall was way back when I was a teenager and on my first (and
only deer hunt).

http://www.jimforeman.com/Stories/hunting.htm

Jim Foreman

----- Original Message -----
From: "MH" <hoagy-CSKG04oV0g/***@public.gmane.org>
Subject: Re: chopping & splitting -was: Hatchet on tour ?


> Hi Mike, I added a few short comments below
> and might of saved you some money so read on.
> -Mark Hoagy
>
> mmeiser wrote:
>> Been checking out some youtube videos. That pocket chainsaw looks pretty
>> promising, though I didn't see anyone attack anything but the softest
>> wood
>> with it.
>
> hand powered chain saw (2:05)
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjC_gPnxe5E
> He's cutting oak a hardwood with
> what looks like a Pocket Chainsaw.
>
>> It seemed fast and efficient, but does seem to take a tremendous amount
>> of
>> energy (intensity) even next to chopping. I could see generating a
>> tremendous amount of body of heat and sweating is not something I want to
>> be
>> doing after I get off the bike at the end of a long day. I want to stay
>> cool
>> and minimize any moisture build up on my clothes in the evening since
>> they
>> will not dry overnight in the winter.
>>
MH
2009-11-22 22:47:59 UTC
Permalink
When I was small everyone in the neighborhood
burned leaves and branches and I loved the smell
still to this day. Thats long gone nowadays.
I usually started a fire in the woodstove at home
October which continued to April each year.
My bicycle camping in the past started in May
and ended in September. Without a car or the
means to rent one I'll be doing more peddling
to my family get togethers in November and
December and maybe April. So if I need a fire
to warm my bones before turning in at night
I can assure you I will do it. -Mark Hoagy

Jim Foreman wrote:
> I've been reading this almost endless talk about hatchets, chainsaws,
> knives and campfires, but a big, roaring fire has never come to mind
> while camping, especially on a bicycle.
MH
2009-11-22 23:09:18 UTC
Permalink
Hi Jim,

You've got me to thinking. When travel up to my
family get togethers its a 180 mile round trip.
Most people hop into there cars and burn 9 gallons
of gasoline and think nothing of it. Now I'll
be doing the trip in 4 days. Two up and two back
on my bicycle with 2 nights of camping out. My
gasoline stove won't even be half empty and it
holds 0.1 gallons of gasoline. I'm pretty
efficient I think. I suppose with this information
we could make a comparison to wood vs gasoline.

-Mark Hoagy

Jim Foreman wrote:
> I've been reading this almost endless talk about hatchets, chainsaws,
> knives and campfires, but a big, roaring fire has never come to mind
> while camping, especially on a bicycle. The only camping thing involving
> an axe that I can recall was way back when I was a teenager and on my
> first (and only deer hunt).
>
> http://www.jimforeman.com/Stories/hunting.htm
>
> Jim Foreman
MH
2009-11-23 01:31:04 UTC
Permalink
Jim,

When I go bicycling or touring I don't think
about taking motorized transportation for the
past several years. Although I have driven my
former car with bike rack to the Local Bike Shop.
I don't usually drive my bike to somewhere or
travel across several states to do a little
bicycling. I'm sure I would if I had the
means such as in the past. I've just learned
to change with the times & stay within my means.
Of course since I like the outdoors & countryside
I've got a advantage living in a small rural town
with nature just a couple minutes away by bicycle.
I don't have to travel miles away by truck to get
to it whenever I won't to go.

Right now wood fire is something thats affordable
and gets the job done much like my gasoline stove.
With a efficient fire theres no smoke. The wood
stove I use isn't to bad once lit and given a
few of minutes to burn. But I don't stuff it
with wood. I want the fire to burn clearly and
hot to burn off the wood fuel gases folks call
smoke. I look forward to making and using Mike's
gasification woodstove in my bicycle travels and on
the patio. It looks to be a pretty darn nice design.

You take care & I enjoy hearing from you,
-Mark Hoagy

Jim Foreman wrote:
> I've been reading this almost endless talk about hatchets, chainsaws,
> knives and campfires, but a big, roaring fire has never come to mind
> while camping, especially on a bicycle. The only camping thing involving
> an axe that I can recall was way back when I was a teenager and on my
> first (and only deer hunt).
>
> http://www.jimforeman.com/Stories/hunting.htm
>
> Jim Foreman
MH
2009-11-23 02:16:45 UTC
Permalink
I want to clarify something.
When I burnt wood in my stove the fire
chamber was run at about 900 degrees F.
which is hot enough to burn off wood
gases according some of the books I use
to read. Any hotter and I stood the chance
of melting metal. Not so much steel but
aluminum. Creosote chimney fires are
VERY scary I found so be careful at home.

-Mark Hoagy

MH wrote:
> I want the fire to burn clearly and hot to
> burn off the wood fuel gases folks call smoke.
MH
2009-11-23 02:46:18 UTC
Permalink
Darn it, 600 F.

Sorry, I have troubles with my
b d p q 6 9 & getting them mixed up.

MH wrote:
> I want to clarify something.
> When I burnt wood in my stove the fire
> chamber was run at about [600] degrees F.
> which is hot enough to burn off wood
> gases according some of the books I use
> to read. Any hotter and I stood the chance
> of melting metal. Not so much steel but
> aluminum. Creosote chimney fires are
> VERY scary I found so be careful at home.
>
> -Mark Hoagy

> MH wrote:
>> I want the fire to burn clearly and hot to burn off the wood fuel
>> gases folks call smoke.
mmeiser
2009-11-23 15:12:06 UTC
Permalink
Damn, I've missed an awfully lot of good posts here, still catching up.

That said has anyone thought of trying pruning sheers or something similar??

While I was sitting around testing out my latest wood gas protype I just
happened to have a pair of wire strippers handy which have a nice big cutter
at the end

As so usually happens when I get brigt ideas they were just there so I
picked them up and started snapping wood for my wood gas stove.

They're very dull, but they actually worked surprisingly well.

They take a pretty good bite out of a 1-3" piece of wood depending on the
woods toughness and level of deterioration/dryness. Several bites and I
could usually easily snap it.

What's more they worked superbly for attacking small wood from the end and
splitting it. Split wood burns SOOO much better no matter what size stove.

My woodgas stove loves wood 6" long or less, and split at least one way....
though it can take up two a 3 or 4" wide unsplit log.

This got me thinking. I might be able to do much better with a pair of
pruning sheers or something similar.

My ideal cutter I think would be nice and sharp, have a 2.5" bite and have a
nice tooth at the end of each blade so they don't slip out of bigger wood
when you open them up wide. Think of it as teeth for taking a nice big bite.
:)

This idealized tool would allow me to safely attack a 2-3" piece of wood in
the round or from the end to split it.

I must say, it does sound silly to say, but it is amazing ho easily wood
split with my electrical strippers.

I haven't found anything on the market other then curved hand pruning sheers
yet but will let you know when I do.

== Sawvivor saw ==

BTW, I forget who mentioned it, but that sawvivor looks pretty amazing?
Can't believe it's only 9oz??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SM64uR1RKAM


== Wood gas ==

BTW, I've almost perfected my home made wood gas stove and the good and bad
news is that now I've found someone who makes something nearly identical.

Meet the Trail Designs Caldera Tri Tri:
http://traildesigns.com/caldera-tt.html

Why does it rock.

1) versatility: works for alcohol, esbit and wood

2) it's drop dead simple and light

A nice demo on youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Va937e6Q-eM

Cons:

1) can't do forced air like mine because you can't close off ports and it
doesn't have one big port. Trail Designs does make cones now with close-able
ports that can do this though.

2) doesn't gassify quite as well as mine because the inner chamber is a
little bit short

3) doesn't have an optional grill top

That said it has some advantages over my design that I don't know i can
beat... i.e. titanium materials, joining method, etc. They make darn good
products.

I know I keep promising pics and videos, they're coming, I swear. Just a
little longer.

-Mike




On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 9:46 PM, MH <hoagy-CSKG04oV0g/***@public.gmane.org> wrote:

> Darn it, 600 F.
>
> Sorry, I have troubles with my
> b d p q 6 9 & getting them mixed up.
>
> MH wrote:
>
>> I want to clarify something.
>> When I burnt wood in my stove the fire
>> chamber was run at about [600] degrees F.
>>
>> which is hot enough to burn off wood
>> gases according some of the books I use
>> to read. Any hotter and I stood the chance
>> of melting metal. Not so much steel but
>> aluminum. Creosote chimney fires are
>> VERY scary I found so be careful at home.
>>
>> -Mark Hoagy
>>
>
> MH wrote:
>>
>>> I want the fire to burn clearly and hot to burn off the wood fuel gases
>>> folks call smoke.
>>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Touring mailing list
> Touring-***@public.gmane.org
> Browse and search the archives: http://search.bikelist.org
> Unsubscribe or list settings:
> http://www.phred.org/mailman/options/touring
>


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Rob
2009-11-23 22:38:05 UTC
Permalink
G'Day Mike
I have a very similar (identical to look at) saw, these were known as
"benghazi Saws" and issued to
soldiers in the second world war. The design of the chain is such that
the saw will only wrap around
the wood in one direction - that is ...with the teeth down. The plates
along the spine of the saw dont
let it get past straight if its upside down.

The idea was to throw a rope over the limb of the tree, a piece of rope
to each end of the saw and
pull the saw up to the limb. By pulling on the two ropes alternately you
could cut through the limb
while keeping your feet firmly on the ground. One problem is you can
easily get so much wrap that
the saw is hard to move - having 2 people and widening the angle fixes that.

My saw is in a leather belt pouch with sharpening files and a tooth
straightener. the date stamp on the
back of the pouch is 1943.

It is a great way of cutting down tree limbs that are in places too
dangerous to climb to.

Cheers Rob

43 C in Sunny Adelaide...and its not even Summer yet...!!!


mmeiser wrote:
> Been checking out some youtube videos. That pocket chainsaw looks pretty
> promising, though I didn't see anyone attack anything but the softest wood
> with it.
>
> http://www.amazon.com/Pocket-Chainsaw-1102/dp/B000LNQA50
>
> It seemed fast and efficient, but does seem to take a tremendous amount of
> energy (intensity) even next to chopping. I could see generating a
> tremendous amount of body of heat and sweating is not something I want to be
> doing after I get off the bike at the end of a long day. I want to stay cool
> and minimize any moisture build up on my clothes in the evening since they
> will not dry overnight in the winter.
>
> You can probably improvise a bow saw with a green limb pretty darn quick. A
> bow saw would probably cut the energy use of sawing in half, maybe even
> less.
>
> It's also packs up compact and only weighs 9.6oz.
>
> I'd not had much luck with the cord type saws. They didn't cut aggressively
> enough and tended to bind in the wood. But I can definitely see giving one
> of these a try in the future.
>
> As for the Cold Steel 12" Bowie Machete. Definitely a good tool. Defintiely
> lighter and more versatile then an axe, but to big for me. I'm going to
> continue keeping an eye out for something smaller / lighter and peraps
> something more choping and splitting specific.
>
> I did find this btw.
>
> The Kabar Becker Tac Tool:
>
> https://www.kabar.com/product/productDetail.do?productNumber=BK3
>
> alt url: http://tinyurl.com/ye8mh95
>
> Pros: It's the right form, blade shape and wedge width. Also a good size at
> 7.X" blade, 12.5" overall length. Specifically made for chopping and
> splitting.
>
> Cons: Very expensive at $140 and a bit heavy at 18.6 oz, the rope cutting
> notch may get in the way when using it with an improvised baton and I'm not
> sue it'd work to well for other "knife" duties because the blade is so flat,
> angular and has saw teeth down near the handle.
>
> It's a start.
>
> Ultimately though a small Sami knife is still the best thing I've seen.
> Narrow in the middle of the blade. Weight out toward the tip of the blade
> for chopping and fairly light becuase their thin... though this thinness may
> make them split a little slower... not sure myself.
>
> I don't think i'm going to find the perfect camp knife anytime soon, but I'm
> in no hurry.
>
> Ineterestingly I have a Kersaw lock blade knife.. a $100+ knife I found
> dropped in a Best Buy store entrance. Never located the owner. I bet they
> were sad though. The thing is in perfect condition, brand new. I figured I'd
> never use it, planned on selling it or finding it an appreciative home but
> it might be big enough to split some small wood for my wood gas stove to
> make it burn faster and cleaner.
>
> On a side note, their are just to many knives out there.
>
> -Mike
>
>
>
>
mmeiser
2009-11-24 04:47:32 UTC
Permalink
Rob that's fascinating. I've never seen a saw like that. It's basically
what we now call a pocket chain saw right? But doesn't wrap backwards so
when you throw a roap over a branch and pull it up it automatically rights
itself teath side down.


On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 5:38 PM, Rob <the_shed-24jMwgp+***@public.gmane.org> wrote:

> G'Day Mike
> I have a very similar (identical to look at) saw, these were known as
> "benghazi Saws" and issued to
> soldiers in the second world war. The design of the chain is such that the
> saw will only wrap around
> the wood in one direction - that is ...with the teeth down. The plates
> along the spine of the saw dont
> let it get past straight if its upside down.
>
> The idea was to throw a rope over the limb of the tree, a piece of rope to
> each end of the saw and
> pull the saw up to the limb. By pulling on the two ropes alternately you
> could cut through the limb
> while keeping your feet firmly on the ground. One problem is you can easily
> get so much wrap that
> the saw is hard to move - having 2 people and widening the angle fixes
> that.
>
> My saw is in a leather belt pouch with sharpening files and a tooth
> straightener. the date stamp on the
> back of the pouch is 1943.
>
> It is a great way of cutting down tree limbs that are in places too
> dangerous to climb to.
>
> Cheers Rob
>
> 43 C in Sunny Adelaide...and its not even Summer yet...!!!
>
>
>
> mmeiser wrote:
>
>> Been checking out some youtube videos. That pocket chainsaw looks pretty
>> promising, though I didn't see anyone attack anything but the softest wood
>> with it.
>>
>> http://www.amazon.com/Pocket-Chainsaw-1102/dp/B000LNQA50
>>
>> It seemed fast and efficient, but does seem to take a tremendous amount of
>> energy (intensity) even next to chopping. I could see generating a
>> tremendous amount of body of heat and sweating is not something I want to
>> be
>> doing after I get off the bike at the end of a long day. I want to stay
>> cool
>> and minimize any moisture build up on my clothes in the evening since they
>> will not dry overnight in the winter.
>>
>> You can probably improvise a bow saw with a green limb pretty darn quick.
>> A
>> bow saw would probably cut the energy use of sawing in half, maybe even
>> less.
>>
>> It's also packs up compact and only weighs 9.6oz.
>>
>> I'd not had much luck with the cord type saws. They didn't cut
>> aggressively
>> enough and tended to bind in the wood. But I can definitely see giving one
>> of these a try in the future.
>>
>> As for the Cold Steel 12" Bowie Machete. Definitely a good tool.
>> Defintiely
>> lighter and more versatile then an axe, but to big for me. I'm going to
>> continue keeping an eye out for something smaller / lighter and peraps
>> something more choping and splitting specific.
>>
>> I did find this btw.
>>
>> The Kabar Becker Tac Tool:
>>
>> https://www.kabar.com/product/productDetail.do?productNumber=BK3
>>
>> alt url: http://tinyurl.com/ye8mh95
>>
>> Pros: It's the right form, blade shape and wedge width. Also a good size
>> at
>> 7.X" blade, 12.5" overall length. Specifically made for chopping and
>> splitting.
>>
>> Cons: Very expensive at $140 and a bit heavy at 18.6 oz, the rope cutting
>> notch may get in the way when using it with an improvised baton and I'm
>> not
>> sue it'd work to well for other "knife" duties because the blade is so
>> flat,
>> angular and has saw teeth down near the handle.
>>
>> It's a start.
>>
>> Ultimately though a small Sami knife is still the best thing I've seen.
>> Narrow in the middle of the blade. Weight out toward the tip of the blade
>> for chopping and fairly light becuase their thin... though this thinness
>> may
>> make them split a little slower... not sure myself.
>>
>> I don't think i'm going to find the perfect camp knife anytime soon, but
>> I'm
>> in no hurry.
>>
>> Ineterestingly I have a Kersaw lock blade knife.. a $100+ knife I found
>> dropped in a Best Buy store entrance. Never located the owner. I bet they
>> were sad though. The thing is in perfect condition, brand new. I figured
>> I'd
>> never use it, planned on selling it or finding it an appreciative home but
>> it might be big enough to split some small wood for my wood gas stove to
>> make it burn faster and cleaner.
>>
>> On a side note, their are just to many knives out there.
>>
>> -Mike
>>
>>
>>
>>
>


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mmeiser
2009-11-27 10:41:29 UTC
Permalink
comments below

On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 5:38 PM, Rob <the_shed-24jMwgp+***@public.gmane.org> wrote:

> G'Day Mike
> I have a very similar (identical to look at) saw, these were known as
> "benghazi Saws" and issued to
> soldiers in the second world war. The design of the chain is such that the
> saw will only wrap around
> the wood in one direction - that is ...with the teeth down. The plates
> along the spine of the saw dont
> let it get past straight if its upside down.
>
> The idea was to throw a rope over the limb of the tree, a piece of rope to
> each end of the saw and
> pull the saw up to the limb. By pulling on the two ropes alternately you
> could cut through the limb
> while keeping your feet firmly on the ground. One problem is you can easily
> get so much wrap that
> the saw is hard to move - having 2 people and widening the angle fixes
> that.
>
> My saw is in a leather belt pouch with sharpening files and a tooth
> straightener. the date stamp on the
> back of the pouch is 1943.
>
> It is a great way of cutting down tree limbs that are in places too
> dangerous to climb to.
>

I think the "Unbelievable Saw" is the modern equivelent of your benghazi
saw.

It appears to be a one sided hand chain saw which flex only one direction.

-Mike


>
> Cheers Rob
>
> 43 C in Sunny Adelaide...and its not even Summer yet...!!!
>
>
>
> mmeiser wrote:
>
>> Been checking out some youtube videos. That pocket chainsaw looks pretty
>> promising, though I didn't see anyone attack anything but the softest wood
>> with it.
>>
>> http://www.amazon.com/Pocket-Chainsaw-1102/dp/B000LNQA50
>>
>> It seemed fast and efficient, but does seem to take a tremendous amount of
>> energy (intensity) even next to chopping. I could see generating a
>> tremendous amount of body of heat and sweating is not something I want to
>> be
>> doing after I get off the bike at the end of a long day. I want to stay
>> cool
>> and minimize any moisture build up on my clothes in the evening since they
>> will not dry overnight in the winter.
>>
>> You can probably improvise a bow saw with a green limb pretty darn quick.
>> A
>> bow saw would probably cut the energy use of sawing in half, maybe even
>> less.
>>
>> It's also packs up compact and only weighs 9.6oz.
>>
>> I'd not had much luck with the cord type saws. They didn't cut
>> aggressively
>> enough and tended to bind in the wood. But I can definitely see giving one
>> of these a try in the future.
>>
>> As for the Cold Steel 12" Bowie Machete. Definitely a good tool.
>> Defintiely
>> lighter and more versatile then an axe, but to big for me. I'm going to
>> continue keeping an eye out for something smaller / lighter and peraps
>> something more choping and splitting specific.
>>
>> I did find this btw.
>>
>> The Kabar Becker Tac Tool:
>>
>> https://www.kabar.com/product/productDetail.do?productNumber=BK3
>>
>> alt url: http://tinyurl.com/ye8mh95
>>
>> Pros: It's the right form, blade shape and wedge width. Also a good size
>> at
>> 7.X" blade, 12.5" overall length. Specifically made for chopping and
>> splitting.
>>
>> Cons: Very expensive at $140 and a bit heavy at 18.6 oz, the rope cutting
>> notch may get in the way when using it with an improvised baton and I'm
>> not
>> sue it'd work to well for other "knife" duties because the blade is so
>> flat,
>> angular and has saw teeth down near the handle.
>>
>> It's a start.
>>
>> Ultimately though a small Sami knife is still the best thing I've seen.
>> Narrow in the middle of the blade. Weight out toward the tip of the blade
>> for chopping and fairly light becuase their thin... though this thinness
>> may
>> make them split a little slower... not sure myself.
>>
>> I don't think i'm going to find the perfect camp knife anytime soon, but
>> I'm
>> in no hurry.
>>
>> Ineterestingly I have a Kersaw lock blade knife.. a $100+ knife I found
>> dropped in a Best Buy store entrance. Never located the owner. I bet they
>> were sad though. The thing is in perfect condition, brand new. I figured
>> I'd
>> never use it, planned on selling it or finding it an appreciative home but
>> it might be big enough to split some small wood for my wood gas stove to
>> make it burn faster and cleaner.
>>
>> On a side note, their are just to many knives out there.
>>
>> -Mike
>>
>>
>>
>>
>


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MH
2009-11-23 21:57:30 UTC
Permalink
You know with the distinct possibility of my camping
out when going to the get togethers next winter I may
need a shovel to dig snow away from my tent site or
bury my do do or wood ashes or trail cleaning an area.
It does other duties too and like chopping or just
tossing it around camp like Daniel Boone.

Cold Steel Special Forces Shovel With Sheath
Specifications:
Overall: 19 11/16"
Thick: 5/64"
Weight: 26.6oz.
Width: 6"
Medium Carbon Steel with a hardwood handle.
http://www.coldsteel.com/spshovel.html

Special Forces Shovel, Hardwood Handle
$18.29 plus $6.95 shipping
http://www.restockit.com/Special-Forces-Shovel-Hardwood-Handle-%2892SF%29.html
Features a 2mm thick shovel head and a hardwood handle.
Overall length is 19.68 in. Sheath sold separately.

Cold Steel Special Forces Shovel (1:43)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIlceAZBRdA
Advertisement

Cold Steel Special Forces Shovel (1:43)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8F8I_jjW4c
Doing yard work.

-Mark Hoagy

MH wrote:
> I agree Mike but the price is right & weight. I'm not
> concerned about defensive maneuvers so I'm pretty sure
> the blade ground angle will do just fine splitting wood.
> The length should be great for chopping wood. Maybe
> January I can order a Cold Steel 12" Bowie Machete &
> the Unbelievable Saw by Supreme Products. I'll be happy
> to give a report on them.
>
> -Mark Hoagy
Neale Green
2009-11-25 09:19:25 UTC
Permalink
> Does anyone here have experience with a fire piston?
>
> Jeff

Not personally, but the refer the link for someone who tried it and
wasn't overly impressed with the results.
http://www.m4040.com/Survival/Skills/Fire/Fire.htm
Regards

Neale Green
Sydney,
Australia
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